New brakes Brembo/Akebono squeek.

[97tbird]

Hi all,

I had new Brembo front rotors and Akebono ProACT front pads put on my T-bird sport yesterday, and I drove the car a couple of times, I can hear squeeking when I brake now. no shuddering or anything, but just a metallic sort of squeek when I come to s stop, not really loud but i can clearly hear it.(this noise is the sort of noise you hear a lot when I see other cars come to a stop, too...I'm sure you know what I mean)

The rotors felt pretty hot after the first drive.

Is this normal 'cause the rotors/pads are brand new? should I drive the car more and see if it goes away?
or is there something weird going on?
Pedal fee/stopping power is great, and the shuddering/pulling I had with the oem Ford rotors are goone.

I also did the "new rotor/pads break-in" procedure.

btw, the dealership put them on.

any thoughts?

Thanks.

 

[seotaji]

several brake applications from 80-20, never stop completely.

let them cool off.

do the same from 40 on down.

at least that's what i've been told.

 

[97tbird]

any idea on how to get rid of that noise?

it happens when I come to a stop(almost always), and always when I then inch forward, and apply brakes lightly...like when I'm stuck in traffic, and inch forward for eg.

does this need attention or shall I wait a while?

I thought ceramic pads were supposed to be quieter....

 

[shortyb]

You may have "glazed" the pads during the bedding procedure. Did you come to a complete stop during braking? Set the emergency brake while still hot? Milk the brake pedal instead of moderate pressure? All of this could cause glazing which in turn could cause a squeal.

Are the Brembos drilled or slotted? If so, that can set up a slight harmonic which results in squeal. If they are plain blanks, it can squeal slightly due to the increased friction coefficient of the ACT pads.

I had this happen on several installs and usually some type of dampening grease helps. Permatex makes a blue compound that I've found very useful in reducing harmonic/vibration induced squeal. Apply to the back of the pads and reassemble in the rotor. Clean off excess and let them set up for about 30 minutes before driving.

Also, the ACTs should have come with VERY nice anti-squeal shims, were these installed? Never had ANY noise out of the brakes when I used these shims. They have a sticky foam backing that holds them in place, helps reduce mess and frustration during the reassembly.

One last thing to check, do the pads move freely in the calipers? Check for an over tight fit in the tab/slot interface. Sometimes this can prevent the pad from moving and cock the pad slightly, causing squeal too. This last one isn't too likely because of the small movement of the caliper piston, but I have seen it cause noise though. Hope this helps.

 

[JustinH]

brembo does not make a slotted rotor for the tbird, they make the blanks though.

Just put some anti squeel compound on the back of the pads and be done with it.

 

[benjamming]

What is the new rotor/pad break-in procedure?

 

[seotaji]

Also, if the pads and rotors are glazed, then take some sand paper and rough up each surface in a circular pattern.

Then you can start over.

Permatex anti-squeal blue works well.

 

[97tbird]

Thanks again..

shortyB:

No, I didn't come to a complete stop during the first several brakings; of course, I eventually had to stop at lights etc, but did it gently. I still haven't braked hard in the last 2 days.
And no: I didn't set the emergency brake while brakes were hot(it's in the rear anyway, and the noise is from front)Thanks.

some other questions now:

The Akebono pads came with shims, which are supposed to quieten things; I THINK the mechanic installed them...(i can sort of see it from outside; I see a part of the back of pads, and THINK I see something that looked like the shims that were in the orig Akebono box, if my memory is good).

so: if the Permatex disc brake quiet has to be applied, can you apply it to the back of the shims, OR: should the shims be removed, and Permatex applied directly to the back of the pads?
------------------------------------------
[I never knew that PAD/CALIPER interface caused so much noises; Always thought it was the PAD/ROTOR interface...could pad/rotor interface also be causing the noise(s)? even with cermaic pads?
btw, read a little on the permatex; seems to be widely used and recommended; thanks for the education]

 

[Mike_dup1]

On my 2001 I never had any brake noise what-so-ever. At around 30,000 miles I needed new pads and rotors. Since GM parts are very high they used Carquest brand (Reybesos I think). The noise was unbearable and a week later I made them replace them. The put on GM rotors and Akebono ceramic pads. In 500 miles of the Carquest my wheels were black from dust. The Akebone seemed to stop the noise but after several thousand miles I hear it again but it was substantially less. It can be nearly impossible to stop brake noise because its often just harmonics, noise caused by speed and brake pad interaction etc.

Live with it, common with most all after-market parts. You could spend $1000's and still have a noise.

 

[theguru]

When you say you haven't braked hard in the last 2 days, didn't you brake hard during the bed-in procedure?

If you haven't barked hard then they are possibly glazed. Also some brakes require some hard braking every now and again to prevent glazing.

Other than that maybe these brakes just make that noise normally.

 

[Russ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike:
... Since GM parts are very high they used Carquest brand (Reybesos I think). The noise was unbearable and a week later I made them replace them ... In 500 miles of the Carquest my wheels were black from dust...

Live with it, common with most all after-market parts. You could spend $1000's and still have a noise.

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As far as I know, those are the symptoms that Raybestos brakes DON'T exhibit. Are you sure it wasn't some cheap house brand instead? I had a similar experience with a brand from O'Reilly's (Brake Best, or Gold Brake, or whatever their cheapest brakes are called). No noise from original brakes. Replacements started squealing during the test drive (less than 1 mile of service on them), rotors warped after a few hundred miles, and horrible build-up of brake dust on the wheels. For financial reasons I had to use them until they wore out (about 3 years). Bought Wagner (as far as I know, they are manufactured by the same company that makes Raybestos) rotors and pads from O'Reilly's, and haven't had a problem since (about 5,000 miles). That's with no brake-in procedure, no sanding of the friction surfaces, etc. Just put them on and drive.
As far as I know, the light sanding of the rotors
(I never heard of doing that to the pads, but seems logical to me) should do the trick.

 

[Not the Autorx Frank]

I have found that using oem brake parts is the easier way to go in the long run. There is always some problem with aftermarket stuff. This is true on many Fords anyways.....also my mechanic at the dealer beds my brakes for my to insure they are done correctly..

 

[seotaji]

thing is, the stuff you buy at the discount parts counter is generic compound, but on the box it says "OEM specs" or something, hardly.

i've had no problems with OEM honda pads (which arent too much more than the discount wearever advance auto pads), but i've had to deal with lots of squeaking with the wearever silver and gold pads on the same car. permatex blue works well.

 

[Mike_dup1]

quote:

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Are you sure it wasn't some cheap house brand instead?

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No, I just checked, its Raybestos on the box according to the store. I know the dealer got the parts from the very same store (only store in town) as I was there waiting for may loaner when the Car-Quest delivery came. I was emphatic with them on using name brand parts.

Even with OEM parts, what came as OEM on the vehicle may not be made by the same manf. that supplies car branded parts. Take GM, Delphi makes the AC Oil filters for assembly line use while Champion Labs makes them for AC Delco after market line.

The only reason I used Akebone on my 2001 was that no one else made the ceramic pads for both front and rear and Akebono was coming thru AC Delco. (I think GM must have a stake in Akebono?)

[ July 19, 2004, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: Mike ]

 

[frankpc]

I put a set of ceramic Akebono pads on our '96 Maxima a couple of weeks ago. I used the new shims and anti-squeal compound. When I removed the original OEM pads they had "Akebono" written on the backing plates (although I'm not sure which pad compound). They only seem to squeak when stone cold and only very lightly during the first application. What I did notice was they seem to be lower torque than the old pads as they don't seem to bite as hard for the same pedal pressure. Less visible dust than the old pads too.
Now if you want squeaks, try a set of Hawk HP+ pads. We have a set on our Autoross/HPDE/Street Miata and it sounds like a train pulling into a siding before they get to temp. They dust like crazy and aren't easy on rotors. No fading though .
Engineering tradeoffs abound ...

Frank

 

[The Critic]

I installed a set of these Akebono ProACT pads last month and they make absolutely NO noise. I used the included shims and applied a thin layer of the moly lube to the pad ears, pad shim, caliper mounting bracket and sliders. I reused the old rotors after checking for DTV and cleaning them with brake cleaner and a paper towel.

Didn't do any formal pad bed-in because the package didn't state that it was needed. Besides, those aggressive bed-ins can be quite risky if they are unable to be followed to the letter. Just did a normal 1 mile drive around the block with normal stops and the pad seated themselves rather quickly.

 

[mikeinaustin]

I used this same combo on my 02 tundra truck. The shims came already machine pressed onto the pads. I believe there was a thread here which the manufacturer (CRC) stated you don't use brake quiet on pads with shims, instead you use brake grease (ie brake quiet products are for shimless pads).

I've had zero noise with these pads and also no dust as well.

I did about ten 60 to 20 "slowdowns", allowed the brakes to cool by driving on the highway, then did another 5 60 to 20 slowdowns.

 

[alanu]

every brake job I do I testdrive after the job is done. I simply do firm gradual braking. I've never really had issues with squeeks in years. This is using bendix, raybestos and the odd Akebono's, hawk etc etc.

Ideally the rotor should have a uniform straight finish. NOT circular like the ones you get from china. Regardless of the circular finish or straight finish I haven't had noise issues.

I use raybestos silicon grease on all of my brake jobs. Majority of pads have shimms now anyways. I stopped using the orange slicon "snot" for years.

Ceramics seats extremely quick. When I use bendix import quiet or raybestos PGD-C's thier "semi-cermamic" aka cheaper ceramic line seats instantly. Dust seems to be reasonable too.

 

[doitmyself]

Quote:

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Ideally the rotor should have a uniform straight finish. NOT circular like the ones you get from china. Regardless of the circular finish or straight finish I haven't had noise issues.

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alanu, please elaborate. Every source I read says the rotors should have a non-directional finish.

Thanks