new battery or try battery tender?

[350Rocket]

After thinking about the cold weather and such in the last week I realized all the talk about charging batteries is for retired people and hobbyists. It really is supposed to work like this: You buy a battery, put it in. A number of years later the battery gets weak. When it gets weak enough that is doesn’t do a start, you buy a new battery. Although, I myself have a thread on checking a weak battery, I did it for fun. Life is too short to nurse old batteries. Flame suit on.

I'm 36 and very busy working. Since I read some very educational stuff on here about batteries and charging (not at all like lithium ion batteries which I did know quite a bit about) I bought a charger and put it on my truck for a good 48 hours or more on the weekend and whenever I end up with my truck on the inside of our single file driveway I charge overnight (if it's been more than a couple weeks since the last one). I have noticed a much more energetic starter on my 2005 gm 4.8, especially when it's minus 20. Now that I know about it I'd rather use the charger.

Previously my batteries usually lasted 7-11 years, (1980s cars being highway driven every day). Now I do lots of short trips, running the 4 way flashers on the side of the road, radio on for lunch with the engine off, charging equipment etc. Now I realize why all the work trucks needed a battery every 3 years.

 

[PalmSpringsSCal]

I think the plan with the best long-term effect would be to get the charger and see if it helps. If it doesn't, replace the battery and maintain the new one with the charger.

If it's a choice between the battery or the charger, get the battery. It's a bit of a gamble, but in my experience under those conditions, the chances of your battery being on its way out at this point are relatively high.

3 yo batt? Chances are it is the battery or will be soon.

 

[PalmSpringsSCal]

I'm 36 and very busy working. Since I read some very educational stuff on here about batteries and charging (not at all like lithium ion batteries which I did know quite a bit about) I bought a charger and put it on my truck for a good 48 hours or more on the weekend and whenever I end up with my truck on the inside of our single file driveway I charge overnight (if it's been more than a couple weeks since the last one). I have noticed a much more energetic starter on my 2005 gm 4.8, especially when it's minus 20. Now that I know about it I'd rather use the charger.

Previously my batteries usually lasted 7-11 years, (1980s cars being highway driven every day). Now I do lots of short trips, running the 4 way flashers on the side of the road, radio on for lunch with the engine off, charging equipment etc. Now I realize why all the work trucks needed a battery every 3 years.

I used to buy the biggest that would fit in my vehicles (27F as I recall) from 1974 to 2000. Since then, I buy recommended size and they lasted me as long and are cheaper. (no night winters below 28 or winter days below 40 ) . Ive used walmarts cheaper batts ($50)that perf and last me 3-4 yrs. on the daily drivers. Longer on the occasional use vehicles. I leave them on tenders now...thats good enough.

 

[fsdork]

3 yo batt? Chances are it is the battery or will be soon.

What was it about "...the chances of your battery being on its way out at this point are relatively high." that you felt needed rephrasing?

 

[PalmSpringsSCal]

I used to buy the biggest that would fit in my vehicles (27F as I recall) from 1974 to 2000. Since then, I buy recommended size and they lasted me as long and are cheaper. (no night winters below 28 or winter days below 40 ) . Ive used walmarts cheaper batts ($50)that perf and last me 3-4 yrs. on the daily drivers. Longer on the occasional use vehicles. I leave them on tenders now...thats good enough.

What was it about "...the chances of your battery being on its way out at this point are relatively high." that you felt needed rephrasing?

 

[PalmSpringsSCal]

Hmm,Thats strange. I thought I was replying to the op ,not you. Agreed with you and snagglefoot. Dont know how that happened..well I kept getting distracted /interrupted by people around me here at home, and due to many interruptions it took me 30 min to write it.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Hmm,Thats strange. I thought I was replying to the op ,not you. Agreed with you and snagglefoot. Dont know how that happened..well I kept getting distracted /interrupted by people around me here at home, and due to many interruptions it took me 30 min to write it.

It happens. Not to worry.

 

[vwmaniaman]

I have a Battery -Minder. It has worked wonders on my batteries. Some of my car batteries are Walmarts from 2007. and 2011. This charger de-sulfinates batteries. It needs to be on the battery for about a month to restore a non-shorted cell battery. My old Vw's sit mostly all winter here. I start them, but won't take them out unless roads are dry and sunshine.

 

[frisco]

Frisco, if/when you do get a new battery, grab a larger one. I put in a Kirkland 24F in my honda element (similar K24 engine) instead of the little 51R in December 2013 and it worked fine starting the car this past week in single digits Fahrenheit temps (about -15C). It did take an extra couple cranks to start, but it did. I'll probably replace it before next winter.

I do top off the battery with a tender overnight a few times per year to make sure it stays fully charged. I am pretty confident that helped it stay in good shape since it usually isn't driven more than every couple of weeks.

I came across this thread:

https://www.crvownersclub.com/threads/larger-group-24-battery-install.35034/

And ordered the tray & box to try out swapping to a 24F in my '03 CRV. Not sure if the OP might be interested in doing so when the 51 battery dies. The battery in my CRV is only a couple years old but is not holding a charge anymore; not sure at this time why (parasitic load or bad battery?) but once sorted out, I'll probably put in the bigger battery.

NIce thank you, I did read a few posts on element and crv forums. Did you have to bend the J hook tabs back for the tray to fit for the 2nd gen? Most of the threads are for gen 3 and up.

I was thinking of using my AGM 35 from my STi since its always stored in the winter. I already purchased the Odyssey battery tray. Since AGM are sealed and more robust in the cold I was thinking of ditching the battery tray and use the spacer the AGM came with to sit on the metal.

 

[Dave9]

If it's a vehicle you need to rely on, don't even think about a charger first, considering age, size and not a top shelf battery to begin with.

A charger or maintainer is a good choice for less often used vehicle, but you should never need it for vehicles driven every few days. Do buy one but not for this particular problem.

Do check the alternator output, and for parasitic drains, but otherwise you don't win a prize for keeping the same battery an extra year(s) till it leaves you stranded, and all those times hooking up a battery maintainer, has to be weighed against the cost per year of just replacing a battery before it becomes a problem.

Make it easy on yourself and buy a battery with at least a 5 year pro-rated warranty, then just plan on swapping it ever 5 years or sooner with any applicable discount off the replacement. You can make batteries more of a burden on yourself than that if you want to, but time is finite and there are better ways to spend it even if it is maintaining something else instead, something where you are saving more than the cost of a couple lunches per year in extra lifespan.

 

[eljefino]

This is a vehicle maintenance forum, not a "write a check and get new stuff" forum. To wit, determining what the full reliable life is of a battery and using various test/ repair equipment to get that life is within the purview of this subforum.

 

[350Rocket]

If it's a vehicle you need to rely on, don't even think about a charger first, considering age, size and not a top shelf battery to begin with.

A charger or maintainer is a good choice for less often used vehicle, but you should never need it for vehicles driven every few days. Do buy one but not for this particular problem.

Do check the alternator output, and for parasitic drains, but otherwise you don't win a prize for keeping the same battery an extra year(s) till it leaves you stranded, and all those times hooking up a battery maintainer, has to be weighed against the cost per year of just replacing a battery before it becomes a problem.

Make it easy on yourself and buy a battery with at least a 5 year pro-rated warranty, then just plan on swapping it ever 5 years or sooner with any applicable discount off the replacement. You can make batteries more of a burden on yourself than that if you want to, but time is finite and there are better ways to spend it even if it is maintaining something else instead, something where you are saving more than the cost of a couple lunches per year in extra lifespan.

Unless you live in an apartment building, plugging in a charger isn't a huge ordeal to take on. I'm pretty happy with the number of batteries I've had make it 7-11 years. That was when I did a long highway commute every day plus lots of long drives. Once I only had a short commute I started to have a couple battery failures. Now I figure the occasional charge up should make up for the change in usage. If you don't want to worry yourself with ever hooking up a charger and you short trip with a modern vehicle, you could very well be stranded by a dead battery that's only 3 years old or less. If you're here and reading this thread, you probably care enough to do the maintenance charging.

 

[Dave9]

Unless you live in an apartment building, plugging in a charger isn't a huge ordeal to take on.

Of course, but it doesn't have to be a "huge ordeal", to make # of times, the bother to do it, easily exceeding the amount of worst-case scenario capacity remaining. It's foolish to not just buy a new battery.

Do keep any lead acid battery topped off if it is sitting unused for weeks more more, but if the period isn't that long, either the charging system or battery is bad and you'd have to be a masochist to pay even more money to try to deny the inevitable.

There is no good reason to get a charging system unless the vehicle (or battery outside of it if you're swapping things around), sits idle for weeks or more. That would be a band-aid rather than a solution.

DO own a charger, but don't make it a placebo for fixing underlying problems instead.

 

[350Rocket]

Of course, but it doesn't have to be a "huge ordeal", to make # of times, the bother to do it, easily exceeding the amount of worst-case scenario capacity remaining. It's foolish to not just buy a new battery.

Do keep any lead acid battery topped off if it is sitting unused for weeks more more, but if the period isn't that long, either the charging system or battery is bad and you'd have to be a masochist to pay even more money to try to deny the inevitable.

There is no good reason to get a charging system unless the vehicle (or battery outside of it if you're swapping things around), sits idle for weeks or more. That would be a band-aid rather than a solution.

DO own a charger, but don't make it a placebo for fixing underlying problems instead.

My experience going from a short tripped 83 Caprice and 84 Cutlass with old style charging system (~15v all the time) doing a short commute to work to a 2005 Silverado with the "smart" charging that backs off the charge to save fuel when it thinks the battery is good enough, it cranks slower after a period of weeks/months, never to the point that it didn't start, but I suspected the battery was on its way out. I had just sold the Caprice to a friend and ended up swapping batteries with it and it had been sitting for weeks already. The truck immediately cranked over faster, so I said okay the other battery (3 years old) must be bad. Within a week or 2 it was cranking noticeably slower, so I got a charger and let it charge for a weekend. Back to sounding like a new battery. Wait several weeks or a month or 2, same thing happens until I charge it.
This is a work truck that gets started and moved short distances probably 30 times a day on average, so it's going to be hard on the battery.

 

[supton]

NIce thank you, I did read a few posts on element and crv forums. Did you have to bend the J hook tabs back for the tray to fit for the 2nd gen? Most of the threads are for gen 3 and up.

I was thinking of using my AGM 35 from my STi since its always stored in the winter. I already purchased the Odyssey battery tray. Since AGM are sealed and more robust in the cold I was thinking of ditching the battery tray and use the spacer the AGM came with to sit on the metal.

Haven't tried it yet, parts are still in the mail.

 

[frisco]

Well I think the little 51r is dead. The temps have been -8C and I fully charged the battery Sunday morning. Today, Monday, it didn't start. Multi meter read 7 volts.

Well decided to go ahead and stuff the AGM35, had trouble with bending the tabs flat but it will do. It's not flush but its tied down.

One of the Jhooks in the kit could not fit in the lower hole so I reused the old one.

I was in a pinch so I used the group 35 from my subaru, which is parked for winter anyway. Will definitely buy a 24F when the STi wakes up from hibernation.

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