New 2009 Nissan Altima with CVT

[Vinny]

Just took delivery - have never done synthetic oil before, but thinking to do it with this car. We ususally run a car 15-20k miles/year over 10 years - southern california, commuting to/from work.

Nissan has three levels of recommendations in the service guide book, premium/standard1/standard2.

First CVT for me.

The documentation with the car calls for a special lube only available from Nissan - really?

Nissan recommendation is 30k/never/never. Recommendation or experiences here?

thx!
Vinny

 

[tomcat27]

I would change it 30k. yes, its a special fluid unlike normal ATF. Currently Amsoil's product reference guide tells you to use Nissan fluid - although I gotta believe that Amsoil has one under development. Redline has a "Non-Slip CVT" fluid available for $14 a quart. supposedly Nissan charges even more fore their fluid.

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: Vinny

First CVT for me.

The documentation with the car calls for a special lube only available from Nissan - really?



I'm no expert on CVTs, but I have looked into them a little because I think they're really cool. They work by using a metal belt between pulleys that are arranged so they can change diameter. I can easily believe that the friction modifier requirements of a CVT are *way* different than an ordinary automatic transmission.

FWIW, JATCO makes the CVT for Nissan, Chrysler, Mitsubishi, and a few others so the fluid can't really be specific to just Nissan. Any fluid that meets the published spec should be OK. Can you buy it at any parts store? Dunno about that. But you can probably get it at a Chrysler dealer since they use the Jatco in the Caliber/Compass/Patriot, and it will be working its way into parts stores soon enough.

More info on the trans:

http://www.jatco.co.jp/ENGLISH/PRODUCTS/cvt.html

Video of the innards in action (turn down the goofy music if you don't want to go insane):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABaJidk9SJA

 

[XS650]

Vinney, I don't have any direct experience with car CVTs but can tell you from an engineering standpoint they are pushing lubricants and materials to the limit. If it were mine I would stick with the Nissan lube and change at 30k miles even if it was driven gently.

The first automotive CVT was the 1908 Carter. It took over 90 years to get materials, lubricants and control systems worked out to where CVTs were practical in regular cars. They are big deal and not ready for user lubrication experiments.

 

[IndyIan]

It amazes me that they just use a metal belt instead of a rubber one like in sleds and atvs. I'm impressed that it works at all for any length of time.
What is the efficiency of these transmissions? Do they need a large external cooler?

 

[Ben99GT]

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=128&pcid=9

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
It amazes me that they just use a metal belt instead of a rubber one like in sleds and atvs. I'm impressed that it works at all for any length of time.
What is the efficiency of these transmissions? Do they need a large external cooler?


There's no way that a rubber-belt CVT would hold up the way the metal belt does under the kinds of loading a car demands. It took quite a long time to get the materials and lubricants right for the metal-on-metal belt CVTs, but from everything I have read they nailed it. They work very well, and in reasonably high torque ratings too (think v6 powered Nissan Murano- sure, its no Cummins Ram or even a Lincoln Town Car, but its rather heavy and respectably powerful).

Cooling requirements are about the same or less than a conventional automatic. There's still a torque convertor and that's the main source of heat until it can go into lockup mode, and the CVT actually lets it lock up much sooner and *stay* locked, whereas a conventional automagic typically has to unlock the convertor during shifts. Efficiency is probably just a tick better than most conventional automatics- less parasitic load because there are no released clutch packs or brake packs being rotated, but the belt isn't 100% either. The big advantage is when you pair it with an engine that has variable valve timing- then the computer can put everything on its efficiency peak for pretty much any demand/load condition.

From my own experience driving with CVTs (just rental cars, I don't own one yet) I'm betting that its a "love or hate" experience for some drivers and an "I didn't notice anything different" for most drivers. Personally I love it- the engine RPM is proportional to how much you're asking of the car (basically the harder you press the gas, the faster the engine turns). As your speed increases, the engine RPM just sits constant until you get close to cruising speed, then it drops down. My one gripe is that it can be deceptive- I had a little Nissan Sentra rental with a CVT and fairly tiny (1.8? 1.6?) engine. In ordinary driving it felt *really* peppy, way peppier than you'd expect... but that's where it gets deceptive. It turns out that if you go from asking "quite a bit" from it(say a normal entrance ramp merge) to "gimme all you got!" (say you see a truck change lanes behind you during that merge and you gotta move faster- ask me how I know...) you may find that even though your foot wasn't near the floor before, the PCM was already giving you about 95% of what the drivetrain had and flooring it doesn't make much difference. But I actually got used to that quickly once I had a feel for the absolute fastest the little car could accelerate. After that, the extra peppiness was a real plus for me.

 

[Corvette Owner]

I have a 2006 Nissan Murano with a CVT transmission. These transmissions are way easier on fluid than normal automatics, as they do not have as many clutch packs and don't use them for shifting into gears.

There is a computer code, which dealers can pull up telling them when the fluid should be changed. My understanding is like every 200,000 miles. I will be changing mine at either 60,000 (which premium schedule calls out for) or 100,000 miles, I have not decided yet.

As for fluid, I would stick with Nissan's fluid.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
I have a 2006 Nissan Murano with a CVT transmission. These transmissions are way easier on fluid than normal automatics, as they do not have as many clutch packs and don't use them for shifting into gears.

There is a computer code, which dealers can pull up telling them when the fluid should be changed. My understanding is like every 200,000 miles. I will be changing mine at either 60,000 (which premium schedule calls out for) or 100,000 miles, I have not decided yet.

As for fluid, I would stick with Nissan's fluid.


At least until something comes out that is equivalent to the Nissan fluid.

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
I have a 2006 Nissan Murano with a CVT transmission. These transmissions are way easier on fluid than normal automatics, as they do not have as many clutch packs and don't use them for shifting into gears.


Define "easy."

They don't heat fluids as much- that's easy. They don't shed clutch material (wear byproduct) at anything close to the rate and volume as conventional automatics- that's easy.

But I'd be willing to bet that the action of grinding the fluid between that steel belt and the steel sheaves will shear some VI improvers and other polymers like he**, so in that regard they may be more demanding.

 

[Finklejag]

Eneos makes a CVT fluid which is Nissan NS-1 and NS-2 compatible. They probably make all the CVT fluids for the Jatco units. Good luck having Nissan tell you this. The Eneos CVT fluid is only $9.99 a quart.

Eneos CVT fluid

 

[Vinny]

Thanks all for the great comments and insight into something new to me. This is my wife's car - she likes the accelleration and pep the car has. She does not even realize it shifts differenctly (or rather does not shift), she just notices how smooth it is.

Additional comments or experiences welcomed.

thx!

 

[unDummy]

http://www.bgprod.com/news/cvt_fluid.html
http://www.eneos.us/products.php?pk=8
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=128&pcid=9
http://www.wynnsusa.com/pdf/14241_CVTSpecSht.pdf
http://www.santotrac.com/techdata/s3000tdata_05.htm
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/pis_pdfs/0CVT Fluid.pdf

30k is the max I would go regardless of the driving style. Might even consider a time limit like once a year. A drain/refill is easy enough to do. You can use dealer sourced CVTF or an equivalent.

 

[cafasco]

My '07 2.5L Nissan Altima CVT manual states 50K OCI for the CVT fluid change severe service. I tried to make an appt to get my fluid flushed @ 50K but service mgr at the local Nissan dealership said 90K is no problem. He actually talked me out of spending $165.00 for a CVT trans flush. The '06 and earlier models with a traditional trans OCI is 30K and IT IS NECESSARY @ 30K for those...(he said)

The CVT is amazingly efficient...my Altima holds five people + all their luggage, 2 sets of golf clubs (the car & trunk are huge), gets 30mpg, and can do a 15.2 1/4 mile (unloaded of course) according to edmunds.com. That combo is as peppy as many V6's.

It's the best all around car I've ever owned. Although I did like the '06 Pontiac G6 3.4L V6 better (other than the small trunk, brake rotor warping, & electrical steering problems) for long road trips. It got 30+mpg at mostly 85 to 95mph (Boise to Phoenix for the '07 Fiesta Bowl in just < 12hrs). The 2.5L Nissan can drone after awhile...and MPG does start to suffer > 75mph.

 

[Saturn_Fan]

Originally Posted By: cafasco
My '07 2.5L Nissan Altima CVT manual states 50K OCI for the CVT fluid change severe service. I tried to make an appt to get my fluid flushed @ 50K but service mgr at the local Nissan dealership said 90K is no problem. He actually talked me out of spending $165.00 for a CVT trans flush. The '06 and earlier models with a traditional trans OCI is 30K and IT IS NECESSARY @ 30K for those...(he said)

The CVT is amazingly efficient...my Altima holds five people + all their luggage, 2 sets of golf clubs (the car & trunk are huge), gets 30mpg, and can do a 15.2 1/4 mile (unloaded of course) according to edmunds.com. That combo is as peppy as many V6's.

It's the best all around car I've ever owned. Although I did like the '06 Pontiac G6 3.4L V6 better (other than the small trunk, brake rotor warping, & electrical steering problems) for long road trips. It got 30+mpg at mostly 85 to 95mph (Boise to Phoenix for the '07 Fiesta Bowl in just < 12hrs). The 2.5L Nissan can drone after awhile...and MPG does start to suffer > 75mph.


That is highly irresponsible and should you pass me at that speed, I can assure you I would be phoning the troopers. You want to drive that speed, do it on a track and away from my family and friends traveling the highways.

 

[cafasco]

Well...in Wisconsin I'm sure it is, but when traveling though Nevada top to bottom I'm the one who gets passed, when someone else is even around that is. And the guy who passed me got a ticket...whew that was lucky!

I've been pulled over in NV @ 92mph and the trooper asked me to make sure I keep it under 100. The speed limit is 75...it's a little different out here.

 

[unDummy]

I'd care less about what the dealer says and I would definitely service it more frequently.

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: Saturn_Fan
That is highly irresponsible and should you pass me at that speed, I can assure you I would be phoning the troopers. You want to drive that speed, do it on a track and away from my family and friends traveling the highways.

85 mph is so irresponsible

Give me 85 mph speeders instead of 55 mph creepers anyday, it's the creepers that are the dangers. Good luck with phoning the troopers, if they don't see it they can't do anything about it. Save your phone calls and the trooper's time for real threats, like drunk drivers.

 

[firemachine69]

Uhm, my bus handles perfectly fine at 70-75mph - in a properly laned area.


YMMV, of course.

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
I have a 2006 Nissan Murano with a CVT transmission. These transmissions are way easier on fluid than normal automatics, as they do not have as many clutch packs and don't use them for shifting into gears.


Define "easy."

They don't heat fluids as much- that's easy. They don't shed clutch material (wear byproduct) at anything close to the rate and volume as conventional automatics- that's easy.

But I'd be willing to bet that the action of grinding the fluid between that steel belt and the steel sheaves will shear some VI improvers and other polymers like he**, so in that regard they may be more demanding.



Exactly, I was wondering if there's a lot of shearing due to the belt. I drove the GF's '07 Murano quite a bit and the convertor clutch locks up very early on and stays locked. I would think heat would almost be a non-issue unless the belt to pulley interaction could make heat even though as I understand it there's no slip.

The one thing I don't like is it's very, very slow to respond when you need it most. If I have to pull out into traffic in a very heavily traveled road which requires full throttle, rpms go to 3,000 and very slowly ramp up to near redline. I'm talking about 3+ seconds to get some real rpms.

The other complain is the programming. If I'm doing a minor hill climb which was frequent in the oil fields and 1/4-3/8 throttle, the convertor would lock early on as usual but it would try and bring rpms down to 1,100, causing pinging even on premium fuel. Pulling it into the "sport" setting was too far the other way, a constant 4K-4.5Krpm.

I guess I'm going to be one of the first on here to try the Redline fluid in it. It has about 32,000 miles so it's time and I'll post the results in a month or so.

Has anyone seen a used oil analysis on one of these things? If not I may do one just to see what it's all about.