Need some advice on coolant system

[crater]

Hello, new guy here. Well, actually an old guy but new to the forum. Heard of this place from another forum I belong to, when I did a search about Techron.

Anyway, I was wondering if there was any way to prove or prove false about a recent radiator flush that I had done. Yesterday, I took my 97 Malibu to the shop for a tune up and a radiator flush. I was orginally was told that the tune up was going to be 89.95 including the plugs.Well, when I called to see how they were doing, they told me I needed wires as well and the price would be 105.00 labor, plus plugs and plus the wires. Total price on this was 230.00. I was also told the price of the flush would be 59.95 and that they used Peak Global since it was better than the GM product that was called for. They also told me that GM was in litigation becuase of their recommended coolant. No big deal, huh. Well this morning I wanted to check the coolant level so I would know exactly where the full level should be. Well, it turned out that it seemed very low to me and that the color of the coolant still seemed very rusty looking. It was only a three mile drive from my home from the shop.

Is there anyway I can check to make sure that the actual work was done on the radiator flush?

I also asked them about checking my air conditioning system since it kind of went dead on me last week, and the first thing he said was it would be 49.95 plus 10.00 for a little bitty bottle of dye that they would use, but he was almost positive (without evening looking at the car) that it would be the compressor, since GM was also know for having a problem with the A/C...

Thanks in advance and I love this site.

 

[Ray H]

It does seem incredible that a full coolant flush and refill with fresh diluted antifreeze would reveal visible rust in 24 hours, doesn't it? However, suspecting fraud and proving it are two entirely different matters. Who was the "shop"? A national oil change service whose name rhymes with, "Gypie Boob"?

Oh, almost forgot -

!

 

[The Critic]

Crater,

Welcome to the forums.

Peak LifeTime Global coolant is of a golden color. If the system was flushed/filled completely with fresh coolant, then the color of the mixture should be gold, not red.

DexCool, is of a red color, at least with the Prestone brand. If the shop only drained and refilled the system (via radiator) with 50/50 Peak Global, then a large portion of the old coolant would remain in the system, and cause the resulting mixture to remain red. From past experience, it is perfectly normal to find a slightly low coolant level overnight after a coolant service. I'm not sure of the exact reason, but I think it's something to do with additional air bubbles being bled out of the system while driving.

I wouldn't be concerned about the rusty appearance. A two-year old fill of Prestone DexCool in my Saturn was of a tomato soup color/consistency. If GM sealer pellets were used (VERY good idea if you have a 3.1/3.4 V6), then some "crust" in the coolant surge tank reservoir is normal.

My guess is that the shop certainly serviced your cooling system, but did not perform a thorough flush/fill, as they had originally promised/advertised. Instead, they merely drained/filled the system. I would go back and insist that they perform a full flush and fill until the color of the new coolant is gold.

Also, its a good practice to change the plugs and the wires at the same time, if you're doing them @ 100K. As for the AC, head over to your local auto parts store and purchase a $30, one pound can of refrigerant, along with a gauge. Measure the system refrigerant level via the low-pressure line with the gauge, then top-off the system until the gauge shows a normal reading. This MAY fix your problem and is certainly worth a try as opposed to paying $60 for a diagnostic service.

Again,

 

[crater]

Thanks for the welcome Guys and for the information. This is the first time I have been able to reply. First, the shop was actually a Goodyear Center. I have been going there for about 15 years with both my personal and company cars.
Now I am a little more confused. Yesterday, after the car sat for about 4 hours, when I got in, the temp gauge was still showing a measurement in the low area. About 2 miles down the road, it went to the middle reading. This morning I check the overflow tank, and it was a clear rusty color (if that makes an sense) and about two inches in the tank. I could see the bottom of the tank. I have not check in the radiator to see how it looks.
When the car is cold, as in the early morning, should the fluid not be in the FULL COLD area?
Maybe I'm being paranoid but the car seems to warm up much faster than before. Should I go a lunch time and have the anti frezze checked for proper protection and then top of the coolant.?
Trying to type this while a work so I might not be making much sense.
One thing for certain, I am done with that shop!

Thanks for putting up with me...

 

[crater]

I am so new to this site and trying to work on cars, that I am having a hard time with all the terms and abbreviations.

m2200b- by saying do a DROP are you meaning just a regular drain and refill?
I'm willing to give that a try this week-end if that is the case.

Also, I forgot to mention that I also have a leaking intake manifold casket, that they want to replace to the tune of 650.00. This will be the 3rd one that they would have put on, in the last 4 years. I keep hearing from them, that it is a design flaw by GM. I don't know.

 

[m2200b]

A flush and fill should get you gold colored fluid. It's pretty easy to bleed a GM of air when you change fluid but the drops you see sound like it wasn't bled and has airpockets.
If you can't get them to fix the fluid, I'd do it again until you have clear gold. Even a drop rather than a flush would be better than leaving it as is.


I would rebleed it - look at autozone site for repair how to - there is a bleed valve near the thermostat and you just open it until you get fluid coming out while the engine is warm. Do that since air pockets can lead to overheating and failed headgasket. Do you have a gurgle from the dash ( heaters) as that usual with airpockets.

 

[crater]

just thought I would post an update for you kind folks. I just went to the shop and it appears that my intake manifold casket is leaking big time now. It was leaking oil before and the service manager feels that the flushing disolved the remaining gasket material and that is causing it to leak the anti freeze.

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[m2200b]

Most of the visual evidence of coolant color suggests the shop did a drain ( drop) not a flush. That usually doesn't cause the leaking gaskets to get worse like a flush might and the actual tech may have decided to do that if he knew you had coolant leaks.

You are new to the site but there is plenty of info on the repair felpro gaskets for GM 3.1 V6 to use and new torque to use on assembly. This info and gaskets has been around the last 4 years. I'd be concerned if you had to do the same repair 2X since 2002 that your shop is not using that fix on your Malibu

 

[crater]

I am really leary of this shop. However the service manager is new since the last gasket was put on. The old manager was the one that also told me I never needed to replace my spark plugs as they would last forever.

He pointed out to me where the leaks were, and honestly, I had to twist and bend like a snake to see where they were pooled on the block. I don't think (but I am new and dumb) that a over splash of some kind could get to these spots.

I do know for a fact that the gasket was leaking prior to the flush (?).

Decisions, Decisions.

Thanks once again.

 

[m2200b]

Correct Felpro gaskets, new bolts, new torque- I'd want to see they had the right parts and plan of repair. Were the failures at 65k and 67k
before 2003? That about when new gaskets hit the market and GM had its new torque and bolts.

 

[crater]

quote:

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Originally posted by m2200b:
Correct Felpro gaskets, new bolts, new torque- I'd want to see they had the right parts and plan of repair. Were the failures at 65k and 67k
before 2003? That about when new gaskets hit the market and GM had its new torque and bolts.

---

I'm not sure about the dates (at work right now) but I do remember that the prices for the gaskets were around 29.00 and the quote I got for the pending work, shows the cost of the gasket as being $154.00.......

 

[crater]

Just go in from work and checked the date of the last installation. it was November of 2003. I'm now thinking about running the car till it dies.
Saturday, I am going to drain the radiator and refill, drive it for a week and then drain and refill again. I just can't figure out, why after the shop worked on the car, it would only take 3 miles for the gauge to read in the middle mark, and not cool down completely after sitting for 4 hours after only driving those 3 miles. It's like there is no coolant in the system, just water. But it never goes past the half way mark, unless I'm sitting at a drive thru resturant for a while.

If I decide to go this route, is there any type of stop leak product that I could use for awhile untill the car just decides to call it quits.

I have sunk a lot of money into this car and I'm getting ready to retire and at the same time, I really don't want to add on a car payment...

Oh well, it's Miller time..

Thanks Guy's...your great.

 

[The Critic]

Crater,

Head over to ANY GM dealership and purchase a package of GM Cooling System Sealer Tablets. I'm not sure how many come in a package, but you'll need SIX of them for maximum effectiveness. It shouldn't cost you more than $10.

Pick-up a few gallons of Prestone All Makes/Models or similar extended life coolant along with a few gallons of Distilled Water. Premix the coolant concentrate and Distilled Water in a clean five gallon bucket prior to installation.

Drain the radiator, refill, and repeat two to three times.

At the FINAL drain and refill, drain via the lower radiator hose. Add SIX tablets into the lower radiator hose, reconnect it, then refill. The tablets are made of ground up ginger root and walnut shells. They MAY help.

 

[Buford T. Justice]

Those tablets are optional. I personally never use them.

 

[crater]

Critic, thanks for the tip. Now to show you how stupied I really am, do I need to drive the car in between the refills, or is this just basically some sort of flush?
Also, when adding the tablets, I guessing I kind of just stick them up the hose?

 

[The Critic]

You're basically doing a flush with Fresh 50/50 Coolant Mix. It's a more expensive flush, but less messy perhaps. However, even after two or three drain/fills with new coolant, your coolant may still look a bit nasty. But that's unimportant, as adding SIX of those tablets will turn your coolant brown anyway.

The cheaper flush would be to flush with plain water. Drain, refill, run engine until normal operating temperature with heater ON, drain, and repeat until the discharge is clear.

According to my sources, the total cooling system capacity is 14 quarts, so add 7 quarts of Concentrate. Then top-off the rest with distilled water. Double-check your manual on the correct cooling system capacity.

Buford, I think you missed the point. His intake manifold gasket is already leaking, and the tablets are his only means of putting off the repair.

PS- I'm not sure how much a GM radiator holds, but some cooling systems, such as Hondas, retain a large portion of the coolant solution in the engine block and heater core. It's best to drain both the radiator AND the engine block each time to speed up the process. Otherwise, you'll be draining/filling 6-8 times like I once did on a 2001 Honda minivan. Head to your local library, most have a subscription to Mitchell OnDemand. There, you can see where the engine block drain is located.

 

[crater]

Critic, thanks for putting up with me. That goes to you other guy's as well. I was just wondering if I could just buy some pre-mixed 50/50 anti freeze such as the Peak Global, that they were supposed to have used, to do the flush with, instead of mixing??

 

[Buford T. Justice]

quote:

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Originally posted by The Critic:
Buford, I think you missed the point. His intake manifold gasket is already leaking, and the tablets are his only means of putting off the repair.

---

Ah my bad.

 

[m2200b]

If its overheating that quickly it sounds more like a head gasket leak. That may be related to overheating from not bleading the system on the coolant change.

 

[ConfederateTyrant]

Crater, you could buy the pre-mixed coolant, however it would be cheaper (slightly) to buy one full gallon of coolant and one gallon of distilled water. That gives you two gallons of 50/50 mixture for a couple of dollars cheaper than buying two gallons of pre-mix. Napa has Peak Extended 50/50 for $7, and non-mix for $11. Should be able to get a gallon of distilled water at Wal-Mart or Kroger for less than a dollar. So instead of $14 for two gallons, it'd be $12 for two gallons of 50/50 mix. You could probably get cheaper prices elsewhere, I just did a quick look up on Napa's website for a comparison.