Need Rear Brakes - Or Do I?

[WetBehindEars]

How do you know if you need rear brakes? I am not using my mechanic any longer since he tried to rip me off.

I went and got a second opinion at Pep Boys. They said the front ones are OK, but the rear ones are too low to pass inspection.

Since then I got it to pass at the car dealer's shop that I bought it from, but I am worried the brakes are low. Pep Boys was assuming I needed them right away to pass inspection.

They seem fine. Can I take the hub cap off and look or what? What should I look for? I am aware that this isn't anything I want to play games with - but Pep Boys is always booked and my mechanic is now my former mechanic. Thanks in advance for the help.

[ September 23, 2004, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: WetBehindEars ]

 

[patel]

I had 1986 oldsmobile 98 regency car for seven years with miles from 100K to 200K mile but never need rear breaks. I was checking myself with every tire rotation.


Rear break goes bad very rare..

 

[eljefino]

If they're drums you can take the wheel off and then the drum too. Usually they're held on with just rust around the hub.

Measure the thickness of the brake linings and compare to spec in the shop manual. If you see any rivet heads in the lining holes they should be deeper than the lining around it... I.e. if the rivets are flush to the friction material they're touching the drums and worn out, now.

Look the drums over when you have them off, should be shiny and smooth on the inside.

Year, make, model vehicle?

 

[labman]

I have run my cars over 100 K before relining the rear drums. Brake life is strongly dependent on driving habits and conditions. With lots of detail since you sound like you are short of experience. Since somebody else has recently looked at them, the drum should come right off. Untouched for a while and it can be a project. Remove any hubcap and loosen the lug nuts. With the parking brake off, block the front wheels, and jack one rear wheel up and remove the lug nuts. Pull off the tire. Look at the brake drum. It it has any screws in it, remove them. It should then pull off. The back half of the brake does most of the work and usually is worn more. Most cars start with 3/16'' of lining. If it is down to 1/16'' anywhere, plan on having them relined soon. Same thing if any rivet heads are within 1/16'' of the surface. The springs and all those other hardware pieces should be replaced at the same time. Look over the wheel cylinder. It there is any sign of leakage or even the boots cracked, they need to be rebuilt when the shoes are replaced.

After looking things over, put everything back together. You will not be able to finish tightening up the lug nuts until you lower the car. Lug nuts should be tightened to spec, maybe 100 lb/ft, with a torque wrench. Otherwise try to get them as even as possible. You should be able to feel a little stretching as they tighten up.

 

[WetBehindEars]

It's an '88 Dodge Aries. There's no way to check them without removing the wheel? I won't be doing any of the work myself, by the way. I replaced the spark plugs myself as well as 2 hoses and the air filter.

I have a vintage dirt bike that fills my quota for being my own mechan

I just bought the car 2 weeks ago, and I bought a 60 dollar muffler (installed and all at junk yard) which I'm not sure it even needed right now (it had 2 holes in it and sounded like it was puttering); a 6 dollar bottle of Lucas, and 4 autolites (Walmart had them for $4 for all !!!) I don't mind spending on brakes - but if I need it and when I need it.

[ September 23, 2004, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: WetBehindEars ]

 

[Gary Allan]

I don't think you can just pull the drum off that anyway. I'm pretty sure you have to pull the wheel bearing to get it off. I've had one set replaced in the rear of my Caravan last year at over 150k. Now the pads on the front ...25-30k ..just like the tires (for those dedicated to the front).

 

[cousincletus]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Allan:
I don't think you can just pull the drum off that anyway. I'm pretty sure you have to pull the wheel bearing to get it off. I've had one set replaced in the rear of my Caravan last year at over 150k. Now the pads on the front ...25-30k ..just like the tires (for those dedicated to the front).

---

That's how you do it. The drum on these doesn't just slide off like GM cars. You must remove the big nut that secures the bearings.

 

[labman]

You've got to be kidding!

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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You've got to be kidding!

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No ..it's twoo ..it's twoo.

 

[Ugly3]

In general, rear brakes last about 2x as long as the front brakes. The problem is that it is hard to tell if the rear brakes are working well. Warped front rotors and replacing pads on the fronts every 25,000 miles are a decent indication.

 

[oldmoparguy]

quote:

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Originally posted by WetBehindEars:
How do you know if you need rear brakes? I am not using my mechanic any longer since he tried to rip me off.

I went and got a second opinion at Pep Boys. They said the front ones are OK, but the rear ones are too low to pass inspection.

Since then I got it to pass at the car dealer's shop that I bought it from, but I am worried the brakes are low. Pep Boys was assuming I needed them right away to pass inspection.

They seem fine. Can I take the hub cap off and look or what? What should I look for? I am aware that this isn't anything I want to play games with - but Pep Boys is always booked and my mechanic is now my former mechanic. Thanks in advance for the help.

---

Your car has rear drum brakes that have an integrated wheel hub.

The only way to check them is to remove the wheel
and remove the wheel nut with the outer wheel bearing. Then the hub can be removed simply by pulling it streight out.

When you do this, the wheel bearings will need to be packed with fresh grease before being replaced.

(Think front drum brakes on rear wheel drive cars)

Rear brakes on your car are on the smallish side, as most of the stopping is done with the front disk brakes.

Even so, they will last 80-100K miles.

For your mechanic to know if you needed the rear brakes replaced, he would have had to do as I just described.

Hope this helps,

Wayne

 

[outrun]

There is only one way to make sure...hopefully you have an honest and experianced master mechanic looking at them.

A. Remove rear wheels and (or) Drums

1. Micrometer measure Drum thickness compared to factory tolerances (these values are in a shop book specific to each vehicle).

2. Gauge Brake Shoe or Disc Pad thickness

3. Check Emergency brake operation and cables

4. Check Operation of hydraulics..Wheel Cylinder or Calipers, hoses etc (seals, movement etc)

5. Lubricate Slides and Self Adjusters

6. If service is necessary also request fluid flush, this also helps to keep bleeder scres from seizing, prolongs component life as well.

Brake Fluid is hygroscopic!

I am not a mechanic, but these are points I have come to figure out for any job.

 

[tweeker43]

try this: engage the parking brake, put the car in reverse, and let it go a little bit backwards.

stop, disengage the parking brake, and carry on.

might help. might not. won't hurt.

 

[WetBehindEars]

The e brake seems good as new. I did not understand why I would try the reverse thing w/ e brake on.

The fronts are fine for awhile - even the pep boys admitted that. I am starting to think the brakes to them were like everything else they said I needed to pass inspection: a new rack, PS pump, blah blah. Even though I used Lucas and it seems fine. I just dodged an 800 dollar bullet.
I eventually got inspection done at the dealers shop, so I am not sure.

But when it comes to brakes, I am kinda worried...I drove that thing for almost 2k since I have owned it and can't belive it needs nothing. I guess al the techs planted that seed about brakes. I am sorry but I cannot be bothered with removing that wheel.

So if the front ones are fine I should be OK with the rear ones on an '88 dodge aries? The pedal does feel spongey when I first get in the car, plus I once stopped on a dime and experienced heavy pulling. Although other than that, in normal traffic conditions, they seem fine. thanks

Nick

 

[tweeker43]

the e-brake reverse trick can sometimes "reset" the rear brakes.

 

[dropitby]

I wondered why they think the brakes are bad unless the pedal is low or a grinding sound.If no gringing sound just have the brakes adjusted and your pedal should come up. If you have a spongie pedal you may have a leak and in that case have them repaired.

OOPS! if you have a pull when braking don't mess around have the brakes done.You can find brake jobs here for $49.

 

[Gary Allan]

Nick

A "pull" can be a couple of things. Neither of which you want to leave untended. It could be a seeping wheel cyinder on one rear brake. It could also be a seized caliper. This would show up down the road with you having one worn set of pads on one side ..and one perfectly good set on the other. Another possiblity is kinked or damaged brake hoses. I had this happen once and before it happened to me I couldn't figure out what the big deal was. With a kinked hose the fluid is delayed in applying that brake component ...you "pull" to the other side ..the more radical the brake application ..the more radical the pull. This condition has the added twist of releasing that brake element slowly ..so you may PULL in the other direction when you let off the brake.

Either way ..consult a pro ..you're obviously not motivated to look into this yourself and, just as obvious, have a condition that surely needs attention before you put yourself or someone else at risk.

GOD only provides a limited coverage for the ignorance of inexperience. Wisdom is required before this expires. Spend the $200-300 and be happy and confident that you are a wise enough to know that you aren't smart enough on this topic.

This is not intended to sound harsh (big smile)

 

[WetBehindEars]

It really doesn't pull, in the general sense. It just did it that one time. I stopped on a dime on my way to work just now, the brakes seem fine. Also, when I was originally concerned about this, there was a grinding noise present, that isn't there any longer. Could it be because that thing was sitting for so long? It is an '88 Aries with only 50k, and the thing was traded in - in May.

My (former) mechanic said the rear calipers were leaking. I have been checking the brake level it seems OK; One month and 2,000 miles later it seems like the level fell a little; nothing significant.

I am tempted just to leave it alone. How could I check myself? Remove hub cap; remove bolts; jack up car remove tire and then measure pads according to manual specs?

I really don't have $200-$300 for this right now, and I am not sure about this car. It's too utilitarian. Can't I just use the e brake in case of emergency? I am being serious - it seems to work fine.

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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I really don't have $200-$300 for this right now

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Do you think that I just whip out a roll and count off a few hundred dollar bills at will?? I feel your pain. The deal is that you can't afford NOT to check it out.

quote:

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My (former) mechanic said the rear calipers were leaking. I have been checking the brake level it seems OK; One month and 2,000 miles later it seems like the level fell a little; nothing significant.

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Well, the majority of your braking is done by the front disks. The rears don't do too much depeding on how they meter the fluid ..either via a standard proportioning valve or a load sensitive one. This would be more apparent in a panic stop situation.

Here, just plan on spending a couple of hours looking at the rear brakes just so you don't get too screwed up. Personally ..and I'm obviously a bit further along in the "been there/done that" dept ..I'd inspect both rear brakes (removing the drums and repacking the bearings) and if I encountered anything lame (a leaking wheel cylinder) I'd refresh everything except the hardware (springs, etc.). New wheel cylinders on both sides. AA is the cheapest source for beater grade parts ..NAPA - higher quality ..but very expensive.

If your wallet is really thin. Pull the wheels and just do the wheel cylinder that's leaking. If you're really cheap, you can try and get away with just using a can of "brake clean" to clean up the insides of the drum.

Shopping list for inspection:

Grease seals (2)

Tub of wheel bearing grease (small - it will be a lifetime supply).

Can of brake clean.

Two cotter pins.

Tools required:

pliers to manipulate and remove the cotter pins (needle nose, or otherwise will usually do)

Channel locks for the big bearing nut.

Screw driver to remove grease seals.

Both should allow you to remove the dust cap.

At this point you're probably into a little more than $10 and two hours of slow stallball hemmin and hawin type work.

I wouldn't focus too much on this being a "utilitarian" vehicle. If it provides reasonable economy in a reasonably reliable manner and is paid for...who cares??? I imagine that you have better things to do with your money than get another car just for the sake of it being less utilitarian.

Detailed instructions available on request.

[ October 06, 2004, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]

 

[WetBehindEars]

Ok this sounds like way too much work. My bike needs carb work, and I can't have this Do it meself mechanical work, any more.

You think I can go to Sears and and have my tires rotated. I am guessing they will shoot me straight about needing brakes; won't they.

What is also weird is that someone just slapped pads in the front without cutting the rotors (I don't know what I'm talking about - this is what I remember from Pep boys). But they said I have time on the front ones.

Although, I'll bet if I didn't say anything to the Pep Boys about grinding (which has gone away by itself), they never would have mentioned anything about brakes. I'll bet the dealer just put those pads on, and that was the grinding.

The thing seems fine, and I know if I take it anywhere, they'll just say I need brakes - if I need them or not.

I don't remember the rules around here, but I need a nice car since I am single, if you get my drift. I can't have some util car in NY and still pull it off. How come no one else is driving a clean '88 paid-for Dodge? Thanks

Nick