Nazi loot train purportedly found in Poland

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Originally Posted By: InfmousCornholio
Hasn't it been decided that Germany probably would have won WW2 if Hitler had not ordered an invasion of Russia? (Dividing his manpower against the massive Soviet army is what is believed to have been the start of his downfall.)


Hitler made his biggest mistake when he declared war on the US. He had no choice but to invade Russia. Either he was going after Russia,,or Russia was coming to him.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
I have no idea but I guess JarAxle's Mercedes must have been breaking down quite a lot! What else would explain all of his choicest ranting?


Are you baked?
 
Originally Posted By: totegoat
Hitler and his followers wasted too much oxygen. Good riddance.


I agree, but everybody waited at least a decade too long.
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: InfmousCornholio
Hasn't it been decided that Germany probably would have won WW2 if Hitler had not ordered an invasion of Russia? (Dividing his manpower against the massive Soviet army is what is believed to have been the start of his downfall.)


Hitler made his biggest mistake when he declared war on the US. He had no choice but to invade Russia. Either he was going after Russia,,or Russia was coming to him.


What choice did Hitler have after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor? Hitler wanted them to attack Russia, but the Japanese saw the USA as a bigger threat, and something they wouldhave to tackle alone.

I wonder how the war would have gone if the Japanese didn't attack the USA, but went after the english and french territories in the east (and maybe Russia)
 
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: InfmousCornholio
Hasn't it been decided that Germany probably would have won WW2 if Hitler had not ordered an invasion of Russia? (Dividing his manpower against the massive Soviet army is what is believed to have been the start of his downfall.)


Hitler made his biggest mistake when he declared war on the US. He had no choice but to invade Russia. Either he was going after Russia,,or Russia was coming to him.


What choice did Hitler have after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor? Hitler wanted them to attack Russia, but the Japanese saw the USA as a bigger threat, and something they wouldhave to tackle alone.

I wonder how the war would have gone if the Japanese didn't attack the USA, but went after the english and french territories in the east (and maybe Russia)


Hitler was delusional anyways. All my history teachers had told me that, near the end of the war, his Generals knew that they had lost, but kept "Yes, yes, yes"sing the Fuehrer to death, since things would not go well for them any other way.

I have talked to many that feel that Germany simply did not have the physical resources to actually win the war, however, for a good period of time, they were dominating their efforts, and winning.

When the US/Allies got involved, that started to change.
 
Absolutely, Germany lost the war the day it started, they just got a lucky start.

The only way the war could have ended good for Germany was to get a cease-fire or peace with Britain, but that wasn't in the cards anyway.

And they still would have needed Japan to subdue the Russians
 
Originally Posted By: jcwit
Originally Posted By: InfmousCornholio
Originally Posted By: jcwit
What does this discussion have to do with a lost train?


The train was a Nazi train. Directly related, also about how train could have vanished.

I don't see the irrelevance.


Ya, just like my dad was partly responsible for the bombs dropped on Japan because he paid taxes.


If the government built the bombs. Then you could say it was a Government bomb.

If this is a Nazi train, then you could bring Nazis into the discussion.

Not on the strength of the "taxes" you cite, rather the subject.
 
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: InfmousCornholio
Hasn't it been decided that Germany probably would have won WW2 if Hitler had not ordered an invasion of Russia? (Dividing his manpower against the massive Soviet army is what is believed to have been the start of his downfall.)


Hitler made his biggest mistake when he declared war on the US. He had no choice but to invade Russia. Either he was going after Russia,,or Russia was coming to him.


What choice did Hitler have after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor? Hitler wanted them to attack Russia, but the Japanese saw the USA as a bigger threat, and something they wouldhave to tackle alone.

I wonder how the war would have gone if the Japanese didn't attack the USA, but went after the english and french territories in the east (and maybe Russia)


Maintain peace with the US in the same way Japan maintained peace with Russia. Why attack their enemy when they're refusing to attack yours? The Japanese would have been pivotal if all of a sudden Stalin had to turn around and pull a k if out of his back.
 
Quote:
Officials in Walbrzych, Poland confirm a mysterious Nazi train has been found.

There are still mysteries however. Walbrzych officials haven't said anything about the contents of the train and have expressed the need for caution exploring it, citing the possibility of unstable weaponry, booby traps, and caves that are filled with naturally-occurring flammable gasses. The officials also haven't said whether they agreed to the finders fee or found the train by other means.

Gold and treasure or no, it would be difficult for the contents of that train to be boring, and we'll no doubt hear more about its mysterious contents in the coming weeks.


http://www.popularmechanics.com/adventure/news/a17087/confirmed-nazi-loot-train-found/
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: javacontour
One never forces another to behave in a fashion.

For example, no one forces someone to beat their children, or their spouse, regardless the protestations of "so an so made me do it."

No one forces their spouse to cheat on them, no matter how many want to blame the victim for the cheaters behavior.

No one forces the rapist to rape his victim, no matter how many say she was asking for it because of what she wore.

And no one forced Germany to go to war with her neighbors and implement their solution to "The Jewish Problem" no matter how many want to blame the allies for their treatment of Germany after WWI.

Because if you want to go down that road, couldn't you say the allies treated Germany the way they did after WWI because of what Germany did?

It's a fruitless road. People nor nations should be excused for their bad choices. If you choose to start a war that kills millions, you get to own it. You can't use the 8-year old's tactic of trying to blame someone else for the bad choice.

No one made Germany do what she did but Germany.

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
WW2 was caused-entirely-by the Allies using half-measures against Germany after WW1. The Treaty of Versailles was harsh enough that everyone resented it, but not harsh enough to keep them cowed. Germany should have been stomped flat--reduced to deindustrialized, permanently-impoverished serfdom for a century.


THANK YOU!!
thumbsup2.gif


I am getting VERY sick and tired of all the Nazi apologists on here!
mad.gif
 
Originally Posted By: javacontour
I recall in some post Desert Storm training that two groups in the Soviet Union were treated differently after the war.

Those who wrote Soviet doctrine were praised. Right or wrong, the Soviets felt the coalition (I.E. US and UK largely) were using their doctrine on the ground. We called it Air Land Battle Doctrine at the time I was a cadet, IIRC.

Originally Posted By: USTRADOC Pamplet 525-5

"... once political authorities commit military forces in pursuit of political aims, military forces must win something—else there will be no basis from which political authorities can bargain to win politically. Therefore, the purpose of military operations can not be simply to avert defeat—but rather it must be to win."


On the other side of the equation, their weapons designers and builders got a wake-up call as few if any Soviet weapons fielded by Iraq stood up to the US weapons they faced.

T72 tanks could not engage the M1's that were taking them out at will. A moving M1 could engage a T72 from beyond the range of the T72's main gun, and take it out without stopping.

The air war was largely over in hours for Iraq. The best they could do is try to hide and occasionally fire a SAM before going into hiding again.


Well the Iraq army was full of old Soviet export junk.

But what people in the west don't fully appreciate about the Soviets is how hard and well they fought threw out the entire war.

The Soviet military was greatly weakened by the purges but their doctrine and operations were actually quite good. The Germans had so much trouble in 41 because the Soviets counter attacked on a massive scale constantly. This isn't talked about in the west because the Soviets sealed all their records after the war and we learned about the eastern front largely from the Germans. But it was not a cake walk, their were massive counter attacks constantly and they ground the attackers down. Their were a number of battles as large as Keiv that are mostly unknown in the west. Part of the reason is the Soviets tended not to publish their defeats.

Their was actually a tank battle nearly as large as Kursk that is largely unknown in the west.

Kursk is significant in 1943 because it was the first time the Soviets stood toe to toe with the a major German offensive, and won.
 
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Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
There were a lot of white people left out of the "Master Race" specifications.

The biggest mistake after WW2 was not keeping Germany occupied. No matter what way Germany was cowed, there was a major opportunity for a smooth talking dirtbag to mobilize downtrodden people into supporting a lot of stupid ideals. We've seen this repeated again and again since WW2 in other nations.

Take any group of impoverished, angry people with nothing to do, and tell them that they are special and give them a means to fight and take control. Works every time.

Adolf Hitler should have been arrested and thrown in jail long before 1939.


Correct, and I say it to people all the time.

Be careful about smooth talking leaders. Remember Hitler and the Nazi party were legally elected representatives of a Republic when they came to power. Their was no magic to their rise to power, they were simply a political party that was elected by a majority of voters.

Also in the mid 1930's he was a pretty popular world leader who enjoyed a fair amount of international support and praise, and even got to host the Olympics! He also did a lot of good for Germany; like lower their unemployment rate and jump started the economy out of the depression. The Nazi's domestic policies of the 1930's were actually very good which is why they enjoyed such popular support.

I don't think people these days fully appreciate how easy it would be for something like that to happen again, which is why its important to learn about it.

Its to easy to write the Nazi's off as monsters and not look at the whole story. In 1935 the warning signs were their, but very few people connected the dots that lead to 1945.

ISIS is the same in some respects, I have even heard some politicians in other countries proposing we talk to them. NO, never, study history it will repeat itself if good people do nothing.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: InfmousCornholio
Hasn't it been decided that Germany probably would have won WW2 if Hitler had not ordered an invasion of Russia? (Dividing his manpower against the massive Soviet army is what is believed to have been the start of his downfall.)


In later 1940 to early 1941 the war was won and more or less over. The Wehrmacht dismantled and sent a number of divisions home. War production was also more or less on a peace footing.

After the fall of France the only country left still at war was the British Empire, and at the time they were weak.

A cross channel invasion was also impossible with 100% of the Wehrmacht doing nothing and able to push it off.

More likely than not a cold war like state would have happened if they had not invaded Russia.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Japan really got off easy.


Yes, yes they did. Their atrocities rivalled those committed by the Germans, yet the Chinese do not make the same noise about it as those groups that were slaughtered by the Nazi's. There is no "Chin's List", no "boy in the Bamboo pajamas". There are no movies about events like Nanking (that I am aware of).


The Japanese got off very easy and the Chinese are quite frankly still being very good sports about it.


Their are still a number of monuments in parts of China dedicated to US servicemen who helped them. They have a long memory.
 
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
There were a lot of white people left out of the "Master Race" specifications.

The biggest mistake after WW2 was not keeping Germany occupied. No matter what way Germany was cowed, there was a major opportunity for a smooth talking dirtbag to mobilize downtrodden people into supporting a lot of stupid ideals. We've seen this repeated again and again since WW2 in other nations.

Take any group of impoverished, angry people with nothing to do, and tell them that they are special and give them a means to fight and take control. Works every time.

Adolf Hitler should have been arrested and thrown in jail long before 1939.


Correct, and I say it to people all the time.

Be careful about smooth talking leaders. Remember Hitler and the Nazi party were legally elected representatives of a Republic when they came to power. Their was no magic to their rise to power, they were simply a political party that was elected by a majority of voters.

Also in the mid 1930's he was a pretty popular world leader who enjoyed a fair amount of international support and praise, and even got to host the Olympics! He also did a lot of good for Germany; like lower their unemployment rate and jump started the economy out of the depression. The Nazi's domestic policies of the 1930's were actually very good which is why they enjoyed such popular support.

I don't think people these days fully appreciate how easy it would be for something like that to happen again, which is why its important to learn about it.

Its to easy to write the Nazi's off as monsters and not look at the whole story. In 1935 the warning signs were their, but very few people connected the dots that lead to 1945.

ISIS is the same in some respects, I have even heard some politicians in other countries proposing we talk to them. NO, never, study history it will repeat itself if good people do nothing.


Here in the west we are taught the evils of nazi Germany however once you wade thru the propaganda you quickly learn the magnitude of the turn around the nazi party successfully executed.
The country was broke,unemployment over 50%. Hitler turned that around in only a few years.
And the tech was decades ahead of us over here.
Then many of those nazis became Americans in project paper clip.
The nazi party may have died in Germany however America became a breeding ground for their ideals. Fertile soil as it were.
In a nice politically correct package.
The nazis invaded countries on the premise of a unified Germany and prevention of those states acting first.
Sound familiar. Today there is a nation acting in a similar fashion. Invading countries. Faking fires.
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: InfmousCornholio
Hasn't it been decided that Germany probably would have won WW2 if Hitler had not ordered an invasion of Russia? (Dividing his manpower against the massive Soviet army is what is believed to have been the start of his downfall.)


Hitler made his biggest mistake when he declared war on the US. He had no choice but to invade Russia. Either he was going after Russia,,or Russia was coming to him.


What choice did Hitler have after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor? Hitler wanted them to attack Russia, but the Japanese saw the USA as a bigger threat, and something they wouldhave to tackle alone.

I wonder how the war would have gone if the Japanese didn't attack the USA, but went after the english and french territories in the east (and maybe Russia)


Maintain peace with the US in the same way Japan maintained peace with Russia. Why attack their enemy when they're refusing to attack yours? The Japanese would have been pivotal if all of a sudden Stalin had to turn around and pull a k if out of his back.


The Japanese had attacked the Russians in the early 30's and did poorly. Their equipment was poor and their tanks sucked. So on fairly open plains against a somewhat decent Soviet army they got their buts handed to them.

They would have eventually attacked Russia, Hitler certainly wanted them to. He learned about Pearl Harbor from a newspaper so they didn't really tell him about it either.

The Battle of Midway changed their plans. Up until that point the Imperial Navy and Army wanted to capture a ring of islands and fortify them. Keep the US at bay and than pivoting towards Russia at some point. Midway changed those plans.
 
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Originally Posted By: dailydriver


THANK YOU!!
thumbsup2.gif


I am getting VERY sick and tired of all the Nazi apologists on here!
mad.gif



I haven't seen any Nazi apologists here.

But what I do see is evidence of the same mindset that prevailed in germany at the time of the nazi party rise to popularity and later power, and THAT is disconcerting (disgruntled ex-service men, and the "you're with us or you're against us" mentality for starters).
 
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Originally Posted By: dailydriver


THANK YOU!!
thumbsup2.gif


I am getting VERY sick and tired of all the Nazi apologists on here!
mad.gif



I haven't seen any Nazi apologists here.

But what I do see is evidence of the same mindset that prevailed in germany at the time of the nazi party rise to popularity and later power, and THAT is disconcerting (disgruntled ex-service men, and the "you're with us or you're against us" mentality for starters).


+1 Have not seen any Nazi Apologists yet. Or any Neo Nazi sentiment.

The ones that really grind my gears are the Holocaust Deniers.

I'm all for a good conspiracy theory, since they always seem so convincing. But that one.. No.
 
Also, may or may not be relevant: The precursor to the Nazi were the "Brownshirts."

Nazi is the adopted name of the elected German Socialist Worker's Party, if my elementary school education serves me correctly. They adopted the Brownshirts as their uniform.

Naziism started AFTER Hitler came to power, and had the nation eating out of a spoon.

Much like today, but, we won't go there.
 
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