My Carb and CHoke experiment, WOW!

[SuperFast]

Ok, i will update on what has happened. I "found what looked like a disconnected pin/hook on the linkage" and cnnected it, so that the CHOKE (front barrel of carb i think, varajet) was CLOSED. Like so. (Right hand side of pic is the front)

Starting from there.. i drove it. Carb/choke sprayed it.. let it idle/drive w/o touching gas pedal around my complex. Got on gas about a monute of torque-driven coasting.. NOTHING! WOW! lowest RPMss ive heard in some time. IT BARELY MADE IT BACK w/o STALLING!

So, i promptly UNlatched that same one, so that the "Choke" (front barrl on varajet carb) hung WIDE OPEN, as i originally found it, like so. (Its from the top down, standing on driver side)

And.. WOW! NICE! Peppy, smooth, a little bit of audible surging and i could just barely detect it, but NIGHT AND DAY difference! I put dimes and a lot of Permatex Ultra COpper in the aitr pipe and put the Air Check valve (also with dimes and permatex ultra copper rtv in/on it in generous amounts) on uside-down, since i got it to fit in somehow, and i also stuck a dime and permatex ultra copper rtv in the "exposed hose" and i can patch that up even more for a nice "Vacuum seal" and "Deleted air pipe and check valve." did this a little ove rna hour ago, and im not letting car get fully warm, since lower hose went from bad to worse, will be replaced the car's next trip, its already past dead, that hose.

Someone on another board was sharp, they suggested and predicted the symptoms i have been having:

1) RAPID fuel consumption
2) Smell of gas when it sits (intermittent) from under hood
3) Hard to "startt cold" it starts/dies.. all three have been hapening. Chioke IS wide open, it just hands there, "all the time."

That pin wasnt it. I found a disconnected small skinny vacuum line that went into a 3-way pcv connector of some type BEHIND the carb, and the connector? I found its most likely spot, driver side of a black thing UNDER the air filter housing.. melted off. Will need someone with skill to splice wire back to it.

Thoughts? I am back to where i started, having basically solved my "massive vacuum leak" problem. i still hear a sligth, ill call it 10% amount of surge/surging idle, and it seems to be all but eliminated in driving (now i know the car was getting hot, idk how long that lower hose WAS leaking but now i have a chance to flush the radiator and coolingsystem) .. ill check up on my vacuum patch w dimes and permatex copper (I used dimes not BBS) and the Ultra Copper rtv...

what can i do next? What cna i do about that "Hanging Choke?" Thanks!

Trying to eliminate the "Sucking down gas like a HHummer" problem im habing. Thank you!

 

[hate2work]

Is having a mechanic take a look at it out of the question?

 

[Brons2]

I assume that is on a GM 2.8 V6? The choke should be full closed on a cold start but immediately pop open about 1/4 inch and then slowly work towards full open as the engine warms up.

Is this on a car or a S10/S15?

 

[440Magnum]

How about get a carburetor kit for it, repair it PROPERLY, and set everything to factory specs rather than dorking around with disconnected linkages and hoses, dimes, and RTV (which, by the way, will turn to jelly when exposed to fuel vapor, letting the dimes come loose to get sucked who knows where.)

 

[eljefino]

Part of the choke is a high idle cam. If you got your choke not working you need your regular idle system up to snuff. This means cleaning the idle speed control and its applicable tubes, fixing the vacuum leaks, etc.

And you need to get the basic parts up to snuff, eg not leaking coolant, before doing minor things like driveability/ tuneup stuff.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Part of the choke is a high idle cam. If you got your choke not working you need your regular idle system up to snuff. This means cleaning the idle speed control and its applicable tubes, fixing the vacuum leaks, etc.

And you need to get the basic parts up to snuff, eg not leaking coolant, before doing minor things like driveability/ tuneup stuff.


Very well said. All those bits and pieces on the carb are part of a surprisingly complex system, and it all needs to work. The choke needs to be connected to start, the fast idle cam needs to be connected to run properly when started with the choke, and the CHOKE PULL-OFF absolutely MUST be working to crack the choke open slightly right after the engine starts, and finally the choke controlling thermostatic element has to be working to fully open the choke as the engine warms up. And that's just the choke, nevermind the main metering, secondary metering, and main venturi enrichment systems, ported and non-ported vacuum to the distributor (or ECM if so equipped), etc.

 

[SuperFast]

Originally Posted By: hate2work

Is having a mechanic take a look at it out of the question?


For now, it is. No money.

.. its not on "n S10 or an S15" its on the 2.8 V6 Camaro. Auto.

yeah, i put a grand total of three dimes in. They all fit very nugly inside the snapped-off metal of the air tube' RTV Copper is above and below them. (Thought i was blocking off Exhaust gasses with it, the dimes ar ein pretty securely, i used it instead of "BBs," i coul dhave chosen from copper or steel if i did that. Nice gobs of Copper Ultra Copper RTV.. to "blobk it off" or "Delete it out" i think i did good? Can dimes really get SUCKED if they dont move and fit very snugly in the hose/pipe, and its being PUSHED ?)
\

Im also learning about Carbs its helpful to input here.

Going to put RTV in the OTHER end of the hose, too. I theorize, there is NO WAY airflow can come loose, and the more i seal up that "optional emissions stuff" the less vacuum leak i will have, and dimes cant really get anywhere in my setup, its almost impossiblle.

 

[scurvy]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
How about get a carburetor kit for it, repair it PROPERLY, and set everything to factory specs rather than dorking around with disconnected linkages and hoses, dimes, and RTV...


Originally Posted By: eljefino
...If you got your choke not working you need your regular idle system up to snuff. This means cleaning the idle speed control and its applicable tubes, fixing the vacuum leaks, etc.

And you need to get the basic parts up to snuff, eg not leaking coolant, before doing minor things like driveability/ tuneup stuff.


440mag & eljefino hit it on the head here. Quit trying to hippie fix the car and do it correctly, starting by rebuilding the carb correctly/set it to factory specs, replacing all vacuum hoses & fixing all leaks. Trying to do this with dimes & glue is a waste of your time and posting about it is a waste of ours.

 

[eljefino]

Haters gonna hate.

You could take a class in auto repair but you would have to spend lots of money and probably not have that much hands on stuff.

What you're doing now is just as educational but in the end you'll either have a great running car or a sweet looking yard ornament.

As for the RTV, if you really blocked ALL the exhaust gases you're probably okay as it's insulated by air. If a little starts sneaking by, though, you'll have airflow... and nice blue flames coming out of your manifold attacking your dimes.

I'll repeat some early advice: "When your only tool is a hammer everything looks like a nail." A few weeks back you thought all your issues were with bad gas so you were dumping all that MMO in. Now you're discovering your carb needs work. You don't know what you don't know, but some of us know.

 

[onion]

Well now this is an entertaining thread.

SuperFast- did you hook up that wire to the electric choke? That's probably why your choke is 'hanging up'... that wire needs to be connected so that the electric choke can heat up and keep the choke fully open with that little rod CONNECTED.

Not sure if there's any way to fix that with a dime... but a couple of cheap crimp-on electrical connectors would probably do the trick.

 

[SuperFast]

Originally Posted By: onion
Well now this is an entertaining thread.

SuperFast- did you hook up that wire to the electric choke? That's probably why your choke is 'hanging up'... that wire needs to be connected so that the electric choke can heat up and keep the choke fully open with that little rod CONNECTED.

Not sure if there's any way to fix that with a dime... but a couple of cheap crimp-on electrical connectors would probably do the trick.


Thats my next thing to do, is "get that electrical connector back on." Im going over the dimes, RTV, with more RTV.. letting car run "For five minutes" to get som eheat going, etc. I started off with a dime.. and i checked, it is physically IMPOSSIBLE for that dime to move. The hose goes "up and down/" Three VASTLY smaller hoses snake into it, and it CANT move. ! AND i installed ar check valve (now useless, as it was i guess) UPSIDE DOWN to FURTHER impede flow.. AND put dimes and RTV in IT!! AND put RTV ROUD where it went in the air pipe, UPSIDE DOWN.. AND blocked off BOTH sides of the HOSE with RTV in the inside (its a solid Copper RTV filled hose now.. with a dime ont e end of IT!

So THERE!

Now, back to the issue at hand. Yes ill check out the connector
NO im not drivign ANYWHERE except to the parts store with that badly leaking lower hose..
YES i still hear TRACES of surge at idle, probably has a lott odo witht hat connector

and i know nothing of the "back" carb throat, ill get advice on there, as the car runs it just drinks gas like a Hummer truck

And also worth mentioning.. that "Smoke on start-up" STOPPED. Doesnt do that, when the vacuum si plugged up. And i watched it closely. Aftert the carb/choke cleaner i sprayed went away and out, nothing. I wonder what that means.

I appreciate te information and i will keep posted, right now the RTV is drying so i should put a sign "Do not disturb."

im glad i mhave provided entertainment, i am also learning and trying to get it running well, and not "yard ornament." I need to do DOZENS more burn-outs for that to hapen, and ive quit doing them too. it was fun, now no more (serious face.)

 

[morris]

you need a factory manual. sometimes the factory does things right.

 

[rslifkin]

Sounds like you're able to get it working well enough to drive it until you have the money to get it fixed properly. I'd definitely take it to a mechanic once you have the money though.

 

[440Magnum]

Superfast, I'm not trying to verbally beat you up or anything, so please don't take my posts that way. I was where you are 30 years ago, tinkering and learning and I made it into a hobby that's kept me out of bars, off expensive golf courses, and out in the garage where my family can spend time with me for the rest of my life. There's nothing wrong with "hippie fixes" in some cases, so long as you understand EXACTLY what you're hippieing up.

Get a service manual, check out or google some articles on carburetors and emissions systems. Learn WHY the factory did what it did, what is just emissions, and what is necessary for the car to run properly. Then go get dirty, find out what works, then go back to reading some more. It really pays off in the long run. And keep asking questions here, you'll get answers. Sometimes snarky, sometimes not, but the sum total will always be helpful.

But I'm serious about using RTV near fuel vapors. It WILL soften up and let go- its not meant to be used in contact with fuel, and my own "hippy fix" experience has shown me that this applies to fuel vapor just as much as liquid fuel. If you have a broken vacuum fitting, fix it with epoxy or epoxy putty. Not RTV.

 

[sciphi]

Thanks for the good read! Glad to hear your improvised fix is working for the time being!

Any chance of going to a yard and snagging that melted connector off of a similar car? Then it could be wired back in, and give you back the electric choke, or whatever it's for.

 

[mpvue]

this thread is full of lolz...
SuperFast, what's with all the quotes? who are you quoting?

carb rebuild kits and vacuum tubing is CHEAP, knock it off w/ the trailer park repairs. you've probably spent more on MMO, RTV and dimes than you would have if you did it right to begin with.

 

[onion]

No shortage of lulz here.

SuperFast- I understand where you're coming from. You're not a mechanic, and you're learning as you go. I've been there. I really butchered some vehicles in my younger days... stuff that makes me cringe just remembering it. But I've been a mechanic for about 15 years now, and I've learned a few general principles along the way. I'll share them with you- just for lulz:



1. First, Do No Harm:

Try to avoid making the problem worse. If at all possible, you need to figure out EXACTLY what's going on and fix all KNOWN problems before you start modifying things. I don't know the whole story in your case, but from what I know of your project, here's how I'd probably approach it: I'd fix that air valve/leak that you've been talking about- using something a little more conventional than dimes. I'd fix the coolant leak. And I'd re-connect that wire to the choke. And hook the linkage back up correctly. Then run the car and see what it does- and go from there. The more stuff you modify, cobble up, hack, and take apart, the more unknowns you introduce into the system. At some point, you won't know if your car is running poorly due to the original problem- or something that you introduced via cobbling. I speak from bitter experience here.



2. Don't re-invent the wheel:

Get a GOOD manual for the car. They aren't that expensive, and they WILL save you money in the long run. Rather than tinkering with the car and reverse-engineering it to figure out how it works... you can often just find it in a book. Saves time, money, and knuckles. The more info you have and the better you understand it, the less work you'll have to do.

Also, you can buy repair parts down at the store... scavenge them off old vehicles, etc. You don't have to make them yourself. You can do better than dimes and RTV.


3. Keep it simple:

Stick to the basics. Look for relatively simple and obvious problems (like that disconnected linkage and choke wire)- 'cause this will fix your car 90% of the time.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: scurvy
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
How about get a carburetor kit for it, repair it PROPERLY, and set everything to factory specs rather than dorking around with disconnected linkages and hoses, dimes, and RTV...


Originally Posted By: eljefino
...If you got your choke not working you need your regular idle system up to snuff. This means cleaning the idle speed control and its applicable tubes, fixing the vacuum leaks, etc.

And you need to get the basic parts up to snuff, eg not leaking coolant, before doing minor things like driveability/ tuneup stuff.


440mag & eljefino hit it on the head here. Quit trying to hippie fix the car and do it correctly, starting by rebuilding the carb correctly/set it to factory specs, replacing all vacuum hoses & fixing all leaks. Trying to do this with dimes & glue is a waste of your time and posting about it is a waste of ours.


Good info here: After being sure the carb is in good working order, and properly rebuilt, I'd start by making sure everything is clean, no binding, proper float adjustment, a good accelerator pump, and no vacuum leaks. Check the choke pull off too. Then read up on proper cold choke setup and adjustment. Once you have that move onto adjusting it for hot idle. Again make sure the accelerator pump is good.

Check your oil for the smell of gas. It is very easy for those carbs to malfunction and dump large amounts of raw fuel into the crankcase. That is a great formula for spinning a bearing and killing an engine in short order.

 

[mechtech2]

SF -
I see that you are in comparatively warm California. This is good news for this problem and no cash.
Your primary goal is to have the car run right when warm/hot.
I'd make sure the choke is wide open and forget about cold start ease and driveability.
The choke is supposed to come off in minutes anyway.

If you are looking for workarounds with this seemingly simple [but very actually complicated] carburetor , this approach is best for a civilian.

 

[onion]

+1 on what he said.