MRV of PP EURO 0W40 an anomaly?

[21Rouge]

I noticed in passing that the MRV Viscosity # for this oil is 13200 (at -40C). PDS for PP EURO 0W40 Most any other 0W40 has a MRV of over 20000. For example: RAVENOL 0W40 (And even for the much thinner PP EURO LX 0W30 its MRV is 18900 (also at -40C)) PP EURO LX 0W30

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Shannow once posted here that a high ratio of MRV to CCS viscosity was evidence that Pour Point Depressants (PPDs) had been heavily used to help achieve whatever xW grade the oil was sporting...I believe a "natural" ratio without PPDs was about 2. This suggests to me that the base stocks for PP Euro 0W40 have inherently good cold weather properties. I guess I am assuming here that the oils mentioned have similar CCS test results, do you happen to know what they are for the oils you've mentioned?

 

[OVERKILL]

Points to an extremely light base oil. Worth noting however, as I believe that's the outdated, older TDS: Dated June 27th, 2017: http://www.epc.shell.com/documentRetrieve.asp?documentId=118612030 The newer one is here: Dated July 11th, 2018: http://www.epc.shell.com/documentRetrieve.asp?documentId=145788755 The MSDS for the old one shows 5-15% PAO. The MSDS for the new one shows no PAO and 60-80% GTL. Likely mostly 4cSt based.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi

Shannow once posted here that a high ratio of MRV to CCS viscosity was evidence that Pour Point Depressants (PPDs) had been heavily used to help achieve whatever xW grade the oil was sporting...I believe a "natural" ratio without PPDs was about 2. This suggests to me that the base stocks for PP Euro 0W40 have inherently good cold weather properties. I guess I am assuming here that the oils mentioned have similar CCS test results, do you happen to know what they are for the oils you've mentioned?

The PP Euro will use lighter GTL bases (and the version in the OP uses a splash of PAO) which will require PPD's, whilst the Ravenol SSL being straight PAO, won't.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL

The newer one is here: Dated July 11th, 2018: http://www.epc.shell.com/documentRetrieve.asp?documentId=145788755

Thanks for the link. I hadnt realized the other one was older.

 

[GlennDa5id]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL

The newer one is here: Dated July 11th, 2018: http://www.epc.shell.com/documentRetrieve.asp?documentId=145788755

How did you find the new one?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by GlennDa5id

Originally Posted by OVERKILL

The newer one is here: Dated July 11th, 2018: http://www.epc.shell.com/documentRetrieve.asp?documentId=145788755

How did you find the new one?

Navigate to the epc.shell.com site and search by grade.

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL

Points to an extremely light base oil. Worth noting however, as I believe that's the outdated, older TDS: The newer one is here: Dated July 11th, 2018: http://www.epc.shell.com/documentRetrieve.asp?documentId=145788755

The new MRV # is still 'impressive' ie still slightly lower than the very light PP EURO LX 0W30. (And the VI is over 200) I need to check for UOAs or other threads re this oil.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by 21Rouge

Originally Posted by OVERKILL

Points to an extremely light base oil. Worth noting however, as I believe that's the outdated, older TDS: The newer one is here: Dated July 11th, 2018: http://www.epc.shell.com/documentRetrieve.asp?documentId=145788755

The new MRV # is still impressive ie slightly lower than the very light PP EURO LX 0W30. (And the VI is over 200)

I wouldn't get excited about that, it just points to low visc bases being the primary blending ingredient. For example, XOM Chemical's 4cSt PAO, SpectraSyn 4, has an MRV of 5,000cP (!), a CCS Visc @ -30C of 910cP, a VI of 126 and a Noack ~14%. But we know this product is Group III based, not PAO, so: While I unfortunately can't readily find MRV info for Yubase, if we look at two of their 4cSt offerings: YU-4: VI: 122 Noack: 15.2% CCS @ -30C: 1,590 YU-4 Plus: VI: 134 Noack: 14% CCS @ -30C: 1,130 You'll note in both instances CCS is higher than PAO 4. I'd wager Noack is right on the limit for the approvals the oil carries and that the base oil blend is primarily 4cSt with enough heavier GTL mixed in to get the Noack to that point. It's then treated heavily with VII's to get the visc, but the artifact of this is the low MRV and high VI. If you look at the PAO-based Ravenol SSL 0w-40 for the sake of comparison you see: VI: 182 MRV: 21,300cP Noack: 8.5% Lower VI, higher MRV, both point to a heavier base oil blend. One that is still propped up with VII, but less of it. SpectraSyn 8 has an MRV of 16,200cP, but SpectraSyn 10 is 36,650cP. Also, even SpectraSyn 8 would, by itself, exceed the CCS visc limits for the 0w-xx designation, as it is 4,800cP @ -30C.

 

[21Rouge]

Thanks much OVERKILL for the detailed post.

 

[OVERKILL]

You are quite welcome.