I have been looking into Motul for a while now. Something has been bothering me. From what I have been reading, 100% synthetic engine oils can only contain group IV or higher base stocks. They can't contain any form of group III base stock. Motul's 8100 line of engine oils say 100% percent synthetic all over them, but yet they are using group III+, not group IV base stocks. Wouldn't that put them at the same level of a "full synthetic" engine oil since "100% synthetic" can't contain any group III base stock, in any form, at all?
Motul 100% synthetic?
- Thread starter GI_GRIFF
- Start date
Incorrect. Germany has an advertising rule which defines "synthetic" as having a very high percentage of group 4 (PAO). The reality is that there are no 100% Gr 4 oils because it hardens seals and has poor additive solubility. To assist with this PAO oils are mixed with a Group 5.
Now some would argue GTL (aka Gr 3+) performs the exact same as PAO especially in higher viscosities but again German advertising only defines synthetic as Gr 4 which is silly because they're both made from a gas.
Now some would argue GTL (aka Gr 3+) performs the exact same as PAO especially in higher viscosities but again German advertising only defines synthetic as Gr 4 which is silly because they're both made from a gas.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2025
- Messages
- 81
As I understand it, in the USA, oils can contain Group III base stocks and still be marketed as "100% synthetic" or "synthetic." In Europe and other regions, "100% synthetic" used to require Group IV or higher base stocks, but the lines have become blurred.
My point is that the whole "It's not a real synthetic if it's not PAO" argument is a matter of advertising in Germany.
OK, got it. Sounds like advertising messes with people's heads worldwide! LOL!!
dnewton3
Staff member
No truer words spoken.
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2024
- Messages
- 1,475
I'm a keep it simple, stupid kind of guy. I purchase products.. Oil that I understand.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
You missed his point.
Oils that are both available in the US or let's say France, and also in Germany, are advertised differently bcs. in Germany law requires oils to have certain amount of Group IV or V to be advertised as full synthetic. So what is advertised in Germany as "synthetic technology," in the US or some other country is advertised as Full Synthetic. So, that should be indication to you where things stand. For example, in Germany Mobil1 advertises 0W40 as SHC (synthetic hydro cracked, though it has other ingredients, mostly GTL now. But SHC stayed from previous versions). In the US they advertise as Full synthetic.
Oil cannot be 100% PAO or POE etc. It must have other base stocks bcs. various reasons.
Motul, except 300V line, are all mostly Group III oils with bit of esters, and when I say "bit, I mean 1-2% at most.
300V is a completely different animal, but you don't want that in your daily driver.
300v has been shown to be ok up to about 3k.......waste of money yes, but it works well as a daily considering its a race oil. 8100 Gen 2 Excess actually out does it on some cars on the track, which is wierd lol
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
$30 UOA is not indicator of how well oil does in every variable.
Here is my UOA of 300V, 5k:
However, whether it leaves deposits etc. won't be shown by UOA.
Yes, I ran Motul X-Cess 5W40 on track as well as many other street oils. Here is comparison between X-Cess GEN2 (this sample did not have track time though) and PPE 5W40 done by SOPUS. Both samples are from my BMW:
Does every new user have to resurrect this tired old topic out of the grave?
Many, many existing threads on this exact topic if anyone is even the slightest bit inclined to search for them. Beat to death, buried and dragged out of the grave to be beat again.
And before anyone drives to the next cemetery, it wasn’t a lawsuit.
Many, many existing threads on this exact topic if anyone is even the slightest bit inclined to search for them. Beat to death, buried and dragged out of the grave to be beat again.
And before anyone drives to the next cemetery, it wasn’t a lawsuit.
Perhaps there should be a sticky in Oil University? @wwillson
Missed that one by a mile.
I always thought they were German.
I really like their oil prep sauce.
I always thought they were German.
I really like their oil prep sauce.
Every topic on here except new product releases, formula changes or a new Lake Speed Jr/project farm video has been resurrected 100x over and the only reason there is activity. Chemical make up of Motul's oil lines probably wouldn't make top 100 of repeated subject matter.
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2024
- Messages
- 588
This ^^^
It is statistically impossible for an established forum member to not see 90% of the new questions as something that has already beend discussed at length.
If we had to discuss only new stuff, in an oil forum - good luck with that. A forum strictly dedicated to 10mm wrenches would have more novelty than ours.
We should enjoy the fact that we get new users and meaningful (re)discussions of established subject. Could be much worse. Somewhere on a BMW forum there's a thread about using turn signals.
It is statistically impossible for an established forum member to not see 90% of the new questions as something that has already beend discussed at length.
If we had to discuss only new stuff, in an oil forum - good luck with that. A forum strictly dedicated to 10mm wrenches would have more novelty than ours.
We should enjoy the fact that we get new users and meaningful (re)discussions of established subject. Could be much worse. Somewhere on a BMW forum there's a thread about using turn signals.
Similar threads
