Just my 2 cents... for the Harley riders, Harley's 5 micron filter and their older version 10 micron filter is rated at nominal value, which is 50%. The Amsoil EaO filters can catch 15 micron filters at 98.7% efficiency is due to the type of nano fiber medium used. A 5 micron filter rated at nominal value (50%) is not as good of a filter that is rated at a higher micron rating if it's efficiency rating is at absolute rating 98.7%. I service ~30 Harleys, all with Amsoil fluids and filters with great results and extremely happy customers!
Motorcycle vs Car Oil Filters
- Thread starter MidnightG35X
- Start date
buy whatever you want.
people sure get anal over somethign as mundane as a filter.. but then again, if you only change the oil once a year because you dont put many miles on the bike, there isn't enough of a cost savings in an automotive filter to make using something different worth the effort.
my 95 FLHTC is past the 170k mile point... I cant remember the last time I bought a motorcycle oil filter for the thing.or motorcycle specific oil either.. I aint an engineer, I'm a rider.
this place has good prices on motorcycle parts, aint worth ordering from them if you just want one filter but if you are buying other stuff, they knock about 30% off the cost of most parts and stock super premium harley filters are about 7 dollars.
https://www.zanottimotor.com/shopping/partLookUp.html
people sure get anal over somethign as mundane as a filter.. but then again, if you only change the oil once a year because you dont put many miles on the bike, there isn't enough of a cost savings in an automotive filter to make using something different worth the effort.
my 95 FLHTC is past the 170k mile point... I cant remember the last time I bought a motorcycle oil filter for the thing.or motorcycle specific oil either.. I aint an engineer, I'm a rider.
this place has good prices on motorcycle parts, aint worth ordering from them if you just want one filter but if you are buying other stuff, they knock about 30% off the cost of most parts and stock super premium harley filters are about 7 dollars.
https://www.zanottimotor.com/shopping/partLookUp.html
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Originally Posted By: PT1
The real issue is why use plastic tensioner shoes which are an achilles heel for this engine. They should be using gear driven cams like S&S and others use and this issue would be moot.
the MOCO used timing chains with plastic tensioners because the design is cheaper than a gear drive and requires less fitment in the factory. cheaper-simpler won out over more expensive and time consuming in this case. seems the MOCO has to worry about EPA noise emmision requirements, hence the chain drive. was the end result as good as it could have been? IMHO NO.
whats wierd about this tensioner issue is some bikes wear them out and others don't show any wear, all having the same setup. the tensioners were shot on my bike by the 30k mile point,now I'm up to 132k miles on the 2nd set of tensioners..( I think I ought to open it up again and look but it aint noisy so I havent bothered) but had my friends bikes cam chest open at 33k because of oil pressure problems and his tensioners had almost no visible wear. go figure.
The real issue is why use plastic tensioner shoes which are an achilles heel for this engine. They should be using gear driven cams like S&S and others use and this issue would be moot.
the MOCO used timing chains with plastic tensioners because the design is cheaper than a gear drive and requires less fitment in the factory. cheaper-simpler won out over more expensive and time consuming in this case. seems the MOCO has to worry about EPA noise emmision requirements, hence the chain drive. was the end result as good as it could have been? IMHO NO.
whats wierd about this tensioner issue is some bikes wear them out and others don't show any wear, all having the same setup. the tensioners were shot on my bike by the 30k mile point,now I'm up to 132k miles on the 2nd set of tensioners..( I think I ought to open it up again and look but it aint noisy so I havent bothered) but had my friends bikes cam chest open at 33k because of oil pressure problems and his tensioners had almost no visible wear. go figure.
Originally Posted By: PT1
....They shed lots of metal especially during break-in that automotive toleranced engines do not and therefore require better lubricant filtration to protect them. Every twin cam engine has a pair of cam chain tensioner shoes that are plastic and shed debris throughout the life of the engine. Most require replacement at about 40,000 miles. Believe me you do not want this debris floating around the oil passages in your engine. Therefore, HD specs 5 micron filtration to protect against these types of issues. Like I said before 19 micron might work. But you can buy a 5 micron filter for about $5 more than a 19. Not worth the risk to me.
The tensioners are the reason they specify a 5 micron. Replacement of these tensioners with upgraded versions will alleviate the need for tighter filtration. The engines are essentially the same, lubrication-wise, and you also have to keep in mind the flow-vs-filtration debate. While you might save the engine with a 5 micron filter from the 'debris' of the tensioners, you may be starving the engine of essential oil that, over time, may cause accelerated wear issues. HD has already turned their heads up, much like GM and their LIM gaskets, on the issue of the tensioners despite 100's of cases of tensioner failure/excessive wear, their fix.. a 'tighter filter'. Fix the original cause, and you wont need that tight filter.
....They shed lots of metal especially during break-in that automotive toleranced engines do not and therefore require better lubricant filtration to protect them. Every twin cam engine has a pair of cam chain tensioner shoes that are plastic and shed debris throughout the life of the engine. Most require replacement at about 40,000 miles. Believe me you do not want this debris floating around the oil passages in your engine. Therefore, HD specs 5 micron filtration to protect against these types of issues. Like I said before 19 micron might work. But you can buy a 5 micron filter for about $5 more than a 19. Not worth the risk to me.
The tensioners are the reason they specify a 5 micron. Replacement of these tensioners with upgraded versions will alleviate the need for tighter filtration. The engines are essentially the same, lubrication-wise, and you also have to keep in mind the flow-vs-filtration debate. While you might save the engine with a 5 micron filter from the 'debris' of the tensioners, you may be starving the engine of essential oil that, over time, may cause accelerated wear issues. HD has already turned their heads up, much like GM and their LIM gaskets, on the issue of the tensioners despite 100's of cases of tensioner failure/excessive wear, their fix.. a 'tighter filter'. Fix the original cause, and you wont need that tight filter.
They way it was explained to me. The tensioner was taking blame because it was the foreign material. But the chain itself didn't have the right finish to it, so it was also responsible. Not sure if it was sharp unfinished edges or just surface finish, but HD did concede that it was a problem they were working on with the supplier.
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Originally Posted By: wileyE
......but HD did concede that it was a problem they were working on with the supplier.
But too bad they werent working with the unfortunate souls that had thier engines grenade while HD knew all the time it was happening, and why.....
......but HD did concede that it was a problem they were working on with the supplier.
But too bad they werent working with the unfortunate souls that had thier engines grenade while HD knew all the time it was happening, and why.....
As soon as i read "There is no such thing as a "motorcycle" oil filter or a "car" oil filter", such a definitive statement with no technical data to support it i moved on from post #11 by dnewton3.
I have read lots over the years about oil filters for bikes and i am of the 'opinion' that the/a primary difference is motorcycle oil filters have lower bypass valve pressure than car filters. 8 psi as against 12 psi from memory.
Purolator has responded on motorcycle forums discussing oil filters that there is a difference in bypass valve values and not use their car filters but their specific motorcycle filters. A marketing ploy??
Though many motorcyclists have reported using Purolator car filters for extended time & kilometers and engines still running OK.
Personally, i will use the filter recommended by the bike manufacturer as this filter obviously works and will work with the bikes engine as designed. A slightly more expensive OEM filter is good for warrantee and much cheaper than engine repairs.
I researched on bike specific forums on what people were using. On my ST1300, people had over 200K miles on their bikes using automotive oil filters. I decided that it would work fine for my bike. 25K miles later, it's still running like a top. People have gone 100K miles on the NC700X with auto oil filters too. 10K miles and it is still running great.
I stock one style filter that fits my CR-V, ST1300 and NC700X. Makes life easy.
I'm not saying it will work for every motorcycle. I am saying it works for many Hondas.
You probably won't find any bypass valve setting info on any OEM motorcycle filters. What I did was looked up the specified motorcycle filter that Fram calls out and look at the bypass setting, then go find a Fram Ultra that fit and had the same basic bypass valve setting. Fram shows the PH6017A as the specified filter and it has a bypass spec of 9-15 PSI. The XG6607 (and the up-sized XG7317) have a bypass setting of 13 PSI. I ended up using the XG7317 because it fits, but the XG6607 is smaller and a similar size to the OEM Yamaha (Denso) oil filter.
I just looked up the filter for my bike on Fram's website and they now actually show that both the bike specific filter PH6017A and the typical car application Ultra XG6607 are shown as recommended filters. When I originally did the research I described above a few years ago, they didn't show both, but apparently they think it's OK to run a "car filter" on a motorcycle.
I just looked up the filter for my bike on Fram's website and they now actually show that both the bike specific filter PH6017A and the typical car application Ultra XG6607 are shown as recommended filters. When I originally did the research I described above a few years ago, they didn't show both, but apparently they think it's OK to run a "car filter" on a motorcycle.
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If the difference between a motorcycle oil filter & a car oil filter (that "fits" your bike) is the bypass filter, then so long as the bypass valve is never called upon to open, then i see no issue using them. Flow flow rate though the filter media needs to be sufficient also.
Use full synthetic to cope with low ambient temperatures on cold start & change the oil regularly and the bypass valve probably never comes into play.
I am currently searching the www for an alternate oil filter for a 2020 BMW R1250 GSA and coming across some interesting info and bypass valve values. The prices are so similar to what i can get a BMW filter for i don't think it's worth using an alternate filter.
I did once use a Purolator oil filter in a VFR800 for a short time. No engine seizure but i chickened out and replaced with a Honda filter.
Use full synthetic to cope with low ambient temperatures on cold start & change the oil regularly and the bypass valve probably never comes into play.
I am currently searching the www for an alternate oil filter for a 2020 BMW R1250 GSA and coming across some interesting info and bypass valve values. The prices are so similar to what i can get a BMW filter for i don't think it's worth using an alternate filter.
I did once use a Purolator oil filter in a VFR800 for a short time. No engine seizure but i chickened out and replaced with a Honda filter.
To my knowledge, the 5 micron filter requirement came about with the 14 103 engines. No one ever emphasized that with my 2000 and 2012 twin cams. With the 14 every mechanic indy or HD emphasizes a 5 micron filter. Even the aftermarket filter for the 103 are expensive. I have a Wix on there now. The book said it was a fit but it's smaller than the filters designated for HD's. I don't think it stated 5 micron but will probably be ok for a few thousand miles.
I also noticed a difference in oil pressures in the 103. My other twin cams oil pressure changed with engine rpms. My 14 103 the oil pressure stays between 25-30 most of the time. It goes down at idle but stays higher than the older TC's. Much more stable oil pressures.
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Yours is a twin cam. Twin cam design was used from about 99 to the new M8 engines.
HD oil filters are 5 microns at what efficiency ... does HD even say?
I’ve never heard.
Some things and subjects never die, this thread it 13 years old!
Its a fact, some motorcycle filters from the engine maker have a lower set bypass valve pressure to prevent oil starvation.
Does it matter? Maybe not, motorcycles never run their full capable mileage in the vast majority of the population.
Its a fact, some motorcycle filters from the engine maker have a lower set bypass valve pressure to prevent oil starvation.
Does it matter? Maybe not, motorcycles never run their full capable mileage in the vast majority of the population.
Jokingly: I’d probably assume they mean their filters “absolute”ly will not filter a single particle smaller than 5 microns at any time throughout the entire OCI.
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