Motorcraft FL-816

[hondaDIY]

Hi folks. Bought 10 Motorcraft Fl-816 off RockAuto. Chose them because I had to play the shipping game. I thought these filters were specced on par with Bosch Premium or Purolator PureOne, but apparently that's only the S models?? Thanks Motorcraft.. This one seems like a Purolator classic (Red can) - type copy.

Is this still a decent filter?. I run Mobil 1 or Pennzoil synthetic on a 09 Honda Accord. I want it to last a really long time (250+). I normally do changes around 3-5 w heavy city driving. Are these filters fine or should I sell/return and get a bosch/purolator one type.

 

[Okcafe]

I run these in a civic and versa, Im a fan of 3k-5k oil changes though. Work fine for me.

 

[Sayjac]

Motorcraft filters for other than FoMoCo vehicles don't follow S suffix silicone adbv spec, use nitrile. Agreeing with the previous poster, for 3-5k mi. oci/fci, should be fine.

 

[alarmguy]

They are fine

 

[Linctex]

Multiple tests show no "real world" results in engine longevity between the cheapest oil filters and the most expensive premium filters.

Run your filters with confidence - your '09 Honda Accord will be just fine.

 

[Zee09]

Calling @ZeeOSix.

 

[partspro]

Multiple tests show no "real world" results in engine longevity between the cheapest oil filters and the most expensive premium filters.

Run your filters with confidence - your '09 Honda Accord will be just fine.

Real World, are you serious, we all know about bad filter pleats, breaking down, simply NOT at all true!!

 

[Linctex]

Real World, are you serious, we all know about bad filter pleats, breaking down, simply NOT at all true!!

This is a bird of a different feather, though..... The XP Fram are just better built.
You can clearly see that filter element is undamaged before he destroyed it.

Edit:
Ooops... wrong thread. That was meant for the dented XG2 cut open.

 

[Linctex]

Real World, are you serious, we all know about bad filter pleats, breaking down, simply NOT at all true!!

Are you referring to tearing Purolators?

Maybe I need to be more specific:
Multiple tests show no "real world" results in engine longevity between the cheapest oil filters THAT HAVE NOT TORN OR FAILED IN ANY WAY, and the most expensive premium filters.

But then again..... go back a few years to when the "Original bob" ran no oil filter at all..... just an empty can.

His UOA was not bad at all........ No real wear resulted from having "ZERO" filtration.

I wouldn't recommend it be a long term experiment, but it proved ONE major thing:

Most people that *obsess* over oil filtration will never see the results of purchasing "premium" oil filters,
unless they own their vehicle for decades at a time (like I do).

A lot of the people on this forum don't keep their vehicles past 250,000 miles...... or even 200,000 miles.
The people that trade in every 5-8 years will not see the "return on investment" for buying premium oil filters.

 

[ZeeOSix]

This is a bird of a different feather, though..... The XP Fram are just better built.

XP Fram ... ??

But then again..... go back a few years to when the "Original bob" ran no oil filter at all..... just an empty can.

His UOA was not bad at all........ No real wear resulted from having "ZERO" filtration.

... the definitive test that says oil filter efficiency doesn't matter. Did he also have an ISO particle count test done too? There have been plenty of real world SAE studies done that show cleaner oil results in less wear. How could it not? I don't use the excuse that my car will rust out, sold or totaled to ignore oil filtration.

 

[Zee09]

XP Fram ... ??



... the definitive test that says oil filter efficiency doesn't matter. Did he also have an ISO particle count test done too? There have been plenty of real world SAE studies done that show cleaner oil results in less wear. How could it not? I don't use the excuse that my car will rust out, sold or totaled to ignore oil filtration.

 

[Linctex]

XG Fram - no sense in getting over-dramatic, you knew what I meant.

I'd like to see a REAL, "scientific method" study that shows that spending more on premium oil filters gives a positive return on investment.... not just a simple "Psychological feel good" that comes about from "I bought the best! Good for me!"

There have been plenty of real world SAE studies done that show cleaner oil results in less wear.

But who benefits from it?
Most of the posters on here (better than 90%) that spend the $$$ for the very best, are just making sure the engine is in great shape.....
...........for the NEXT owner of the vehicle.

 

[ZeeOSix]

XG Fram - no sense in getting over-dramatic, you knew what I meant.

I'd like to see a REAL, "scientific method" study that shows that spending more on premium oil filters gives a positive return on investment.... not just a simple "Psychological feel good" that comes about from "I bought the best! Good for me!"

But who benefits from it?
Most of the posters on here (better than 90%) that spend the $$$ for the very best, are just making sure the engine is in great shape.....
...........for the NEXT owner of the vehicle.

Thought it might be some new Fram filter, or maybe the Titanium. Google 'engine wear vs oil cleanliness' and do some reading ... lots of info about it, and it's been talked about a lot in this forum. I'm going to treat my vehicles like crap because I don't want the next guy to get a good buy ... and I'll save $3 or $4 a year by doing so. If I run no oil filter I might save $10 a year, lol. I don't care what others use, but I have reasons to keep my oil cleaner with better filtration - one of the trifectas of keeping an engine in top shape.

 

[Linctex]

to treat my vehicles like crap

Using an "approved" and known-quality filter (standard Motorcraft, Supertech, Fram PH series, etc. etc. etc.) is perfectly normal.....
and it is NOT "treating my vehicle like crap" by using a $4 filter.
These are approved filters that meet manufacturers specifications.
Some people's heads almost exploded (back in the day) when they found out their beloved Honda oil filter was a Fram PH filter in different paint & with a Honda part number. Generally, a Honda will last well over 200,000 miles running what is essentially the cheapest Fram made.... 94% at 30 microns or something or another? Would it go 400,000 miles if it had Fram XG or Amsoil filters all of it's life?
Maybe....
but that is data that is very difficult to obtain, due to the variable that occur in an uncontrolled test environment (the average Joe car owner who is commuting daily, 51-52 weeks a year)

I don't care what others use, but I have reasons to keep my oil cleaner with better filtration.

I can respect that.
You have been pretty good about being factual in past discussions, but even now your emotions sway your objectivity just ever so slightly - - but still noticeable.
By the way, have you got any recent particle count data you can share? *Not* from other studies - I mean from your own personal vehicles.

The original poster asks:

Is this still a decent filter?

The simplest answer is "Yes" - to which i would add "Don't worry about buying the best filter available... your car will be just fine with basically any approved oil filter that is considered to generally be of good quality". If he comes back and starts asking about particle counts and ISO tests, then that's fine.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Using an "approved" and known-quality filter (standard Motorcraft, Supertech, Fram PH series, etc. etc. etc.) is perfectly normal.....
and it is NOT "treating my vehicle like crap" by using a $4 filter.

I was talking in general when said "treat it like crap" - not specifically about oil filters. With that attitude I wouldn't care how it was treated or maintained as long as it was still "running good" when I got rid of it. I don't think that way about my stuff, so I typically go more high end then bottom of the barrel on parts and maintenance items (oils, filters, etc). My Tacoma is 16 years old, and I'll probably have it for another 16 years.

Generally, a Honda will last well over 200,000 miles running what is essentially the cheapest Fram made.... 94% at 30 microns or something or another? Would it go 400,000 miles if it had Fram XG or Amsoil filters all of it's life?
Maybe....

Fram EG is 95% @ 20u actually ... same as a regular WIX. That is the lowest efficiency filter I'd run based on my OCIs.

I can respect that.
You have been pretty good about being factual in past discussions, but even now your emotions sway your objectivity just ever so slightly - - but still noticeable.
By the way, have you got any recent particle count data you can share? *Not* from other studies - I mean from your own personal vehicles.

I've posted a few times the ISO PC data from UOAs on this chat board. More than not, a filter with worse efficiency will show a worse PC. Keep in mind the UOAs here are done by different people on different engines, so take it as you will. The various SAE, etc studies always showed cleaner oil with better filtration ... how would it not? I'm still waiting for those studies that show otherwise, and show that dirtier oil caused no more wear than cleaner oil. Everything I've researched says spend $3 more a year and run an efficient oil filter ... it's not based on "feelings", it's based on data.

And many times, I'd mentioned that the longer the OCI the more an efficient oil filter benefits in reducing wear. Wear is proportional to the level of oil cleanliness times the number of sump cycles put through the oiling system. If engine oil was changed every 750-000 miles on a broken-in engine you probably wouldn't need much of an oil filter, or none at all. If the oil was changed every 3-5K miles a lesser efficiency filter is going to do fine. If the oil was changed every 8-10K miles a more efficient filter would benefit.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I like high efficiency, low delta-p oil filters, and higher HTHS and lower Noack oil with Moly too .... I'm a rebel.

 

[hondaDIY]

Lol looks like there's quite a storm. I'm feeling better about my purchase. I checked the Supertechs from walmart (I was worried it was a clone). It looks like the motorcraft has a better design (metal core, different top ventilation) and felt heavier (although can't verify). I think my Honda will be happy with them for shorter interval changes. Only thing that is slightly disturbing is people say the silicon drainback valve will reduce wear or something, but the filter is vertically mounted..

I should have also mentioned that my accord is a v6 model not ye ole 4 banger.. IDK if the filter matters more for that? I assume the v6 should last as long if not longer than a 4 cyl due to less stress?

 

[ZeeOSix]

FYI ... the Motorcraft FL-822 is the longer version of the FL-810, which is basically the same size as the Purolator 14610 or the Fram 7317.

 

[hondaDIY]

Yes I think the FL 816 is probably a short version of a red purolator? Is there a long version of the FL 816. I bought this over the Denso because Merica. Denso is probably higher quality in hindsight

 

[kschachn]

Are you referring to tearing Purolators?

Maybe I need to be more specific:
Multiple tests show no "real world" results in engine longevity between the cheapest oil filters THAT HAVE NOT TORN OR FAILED IN ANY WAY, and the most expensive premium filters.

But then again..... go back a few years to when the "Original bob" ran no oil filter at all..... just an empty can.

His UOA was not bad at all........ No real wear resulted from having "ZERO" filtration.

I wouldn't recommend it be a long term experiment, but it proved ONE major thing:

Most people that *obsess* over oil filtration will never see the results of purchasing "premium" oil filters,
unless they own their vehicle for decades at a time (like I do).

A lot of the people on this forum don't keep their vehicles past 250,000 miles...... or even 200,000 miles.
The people that trade in every 5-8 years will not see the "return on investment" for buying premium oil filters.

Again what real-world tests are these that measure wear?

Surely not UOA results, you are smarter than that. People want to use $30 spectrographic analysis results for all sorts of things nearly all of which are fundamentally and deeply inappropriate. Please tell me you have access to actual wear data that statistically and significantly shows that a lower efficiency filter does not cause more wear.