Most reliable vehicle from five years of data

[Drew99GT]

That is insane on the brakes!

I have about 40 to 50% front pad wear left after 70,000 miles now................one of the virtues of a manual tranny and the ability to drive it well is you can practically come to a stop just with the engine, even if you don't downshift like crazy. I do get bad looks at every stoplight for slowing down so early, but what's the point of being first at a redlight?

 

[rjundi]

Your data correlates with Consumer Reports. I believe the Prius was cream of the crop in their ratings along with Civic Hybrid.

 

[gedcruise]

Not intending any disrespect, Lonnie, but from wha I have read above, it appears that you manage a database, not a fleet. We have a database we are supposed to use for the fleet vehicles I purchase. It is used at random. I would hate to generalize vehicle reliability based upon the database we are using. It is simply hard to get the staff who should be doing the updates to do so, and since our fleet is not really all that large, nobody really regards it as a priority.

 

[Lonnie]

Well, we manage maintenance schedules and track suppliers for quality as well as delivery and price. We develop patterns for estimating component failures from data and interviews with mechanics and drivers. We have a logic engine that learns as it grows and receives corrections from humans. We also evalauate lab work and do teardowns. We develop maintenance paterns and put them into place. We also work with the vehicle manufacturers and suppliers of parts and fluids. We are constantly running real world tests and have many vehicles running with snitch systems (GPS with running data readouts from the vehicles). We are factory approved for warranty work on many types of vehicles and have close connections with some dealers for referred warranty work. You are right, I work with the data and don't have my hands on the tools. I do get involved in tear downs and inspections and measurements. This logic engine has been in the works for about 20 years and we understand that many operations randomly report data. We have worked through that and how we have done it is part of the value of the system. An example. A few years ago we ran a bunch of vehicles on 5w-20, the first such large test. We did voa's, uoa's, installed snitch systems and had tear downs. We think the data we collected was valid, as did the manufacturer. We are very high on Motorcraft 5w-20 oil because of testing and teardowns, while other operations won't touch it. Their information is not based on data and they are welcome to their choice. So you are right again. I do not turn wrenches and if in your eyes that makes the data worthless then so be it. It's a rough world out there and the more we are able to implement our patterns and the more others keep on keeping on the better. Just last week a fleet operator told me that in his Ford vehicles that require 5w-20 they are using only 10w-30. Several of his mechanics warned him off the 5w-20 and Motorcraft oil. I asked one of the mechanics about this and he told me that a 20 weight was 30 percent thinner than a 30 weight (his words not mine). He told me that this oil was only for CAFE ratings and would destroy the engine in the long run. So you may be right. It's better to get your information from a mechanic, not someone managing the data.

 

[jdm90]

This has been a very interesting and entertaining.

 

[gedcruise]

You have a far more sophisticated system than we do. We rely upon a variety of users, fixers, and administrators to compile our fleet data. We have no GPS tracking, and no snitch capability. I am in awe of what you are able to know. That said, I know that our own database people, in various areas, like to think that they really know what's going on. They don't.

 

[Lonnie]

Your type of system can work, depending on the consistant efforts of those involved.

 

[427Z06]

Thanks for sharing, Lonnie.

 

[gedcruise]

On the other hand, given the sample size you have, you probably do have very good comparative data.
If your data is telling you that the Prius is extraordinarily reliable, it probably is.
I would never have expected Toyota to have done this well with such a complicated piece. Every other car company should be afraid, very afraid.

 

[carock]

Yes, it is really a show of Toyota's engineering prowess that they have pulled off the best hybrid on the market. This is the direction things are going to go.

 

[Lonnie]

We are just starting with the Camry Hybrid, but it looks like it's going to be as reliable as the Prius. We have people that can opt for any vehicle in the 30k range and they are picking the Camry Hybrid, and keeping an existing vehicle longer to be in line for the next CH. We also have had people try the Prius just to take it for a drive and want one. I do have a question for you. Why is the Camry Hybrid a 5w-20 engine and the Prius a 5w-30 engine? Is it because the Prius engine is an older engine?

 

[spiderbypass]

I test drove a 2007 Ce Camry with 5 speed manual. I liked the shifter, and the car felt first class all around. I felt the 2007 camry was a better handler than a 2004 camry I test drove previously.

I still prefer the way my 2004 Honda Accord generally rides as it provides a nice combination of road feel, with comfort. I have 66K miles on the car, and have 15 inch Michelin Pilot Exalto All Season tires, which have significantly improved handling ability over the Michelin Energy Tires, which gave smoother ride, with better fuel economy at the expense of handling. I liken a Honda Accord as French Vanilla compared with the pure vanilla of a Camry. Even though I prefer Accords, I think Toyotas are generally more reliable by a "smidge."

I am glad Camry's still provide a manual transmission at least on four cylinder models, as am concerned that Honda Civic Hybrid, Toyota Prius, Honda CRV, and RAV 4, do not offer a manual transmission option.

 

[g20ooh]

" - with 5 years of data, ...... The total database covers about 200 Prius's (certainly not enough top prove anything) over this period. They were usually driven by one or two drivers each and all run past 100k miles, about half past 150k and a 23 past 200k miles - "

#78546 12/24/06 10:58 PM

Previous Thread/post " Most Reliable Vehicle "
#784638 12/22/06 12:08 PM

" With data from 68 vehicles, 1st and 2nd generation cars over 5 years and 377k miles, the maintenance per mile was over 25% less than second place with 2nd through 10th place with in 5 points of each other and a big jump to 11th. )

So Lonnie , why the differences .....esp 377k/68 = 55,441.18 vs " all run past 100K " . ?

------------------------------------------------------------Moving Forward - One Headgasket At A Time . ----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[g20ooh]

" Drivers just would not give them up on schedule. Also, percentage wise more of these vehicles were purchased by the operator at the end of the lease, over 80%. Second place is purchase is about 20%....... - Not one driver turn back a Prius.

Don't doubt that possibility , h*** , if I was tens of thousands of miles or more over on my lease mileage allowance and facing the prospect of paying thousands to tens of thousands in overmileage fees , possible penalities ,and likely extra wear and tear charges I wouldn't give it back either esp if this occurred during the last fuel price spike .
Did you make any effort at all to identify and eliminate all other possible buyer motivation ?

 

[g20ooh]

How many of your 8600 vehicle data base are North American light passenger car station wagon , and passenger van ?
How many are North American Pick Ups ?

 

[g20ooh]

Quote:

---

It is too bad my dad got a Civic Hybrid instead of a Prius. [ quote ]

Are you sure your dad didn't buy a Prius ? I ask because those sorts of complaints are more common to the Prius , and according to www.-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov there are no recalls currently listed on any 2004 Civic Hybrid while there are three for the 2004 Prius . In fact , the " scorecard " there is way more favorable to the Honda , both in quality and quantity .

---------2004 Civic Hybrid--2004Prius-----------------------
# recalls-------------0---------------3-------------------------
# investigations---0---------------1-------------------------
# TSBs---------------9---------------45------------------------
# Complaints-------20--------------247-----------------------



When reading at the NHTSA ODI site keep in mind five complaints same area/same nature are considered significant . The Prius has more groups of five than I can count right now

Also keep in mind toyotas use of their ubiquitous hide the sausage " campaigns " aimed at avoiding having to report yet another TSB or Recall

. This still shouldn't be happening , but it is .

-------------------------Moving Forward - One Recall At A Time------------

 

[marc780]

2nd place a hyundai? That could happen

 

[smoke]

Quote:

---

At one location we even have a pool for best mileage with digital pic's of the display required to compete.

---

forgive my ignorance, but digital photos of what display?

 

[brianl703]

Probably the odometer.

Which sucks when you have a 5-digit one nearing it's third time around..

 

[javacontour]

I think he means the instant MPG readout on the hybrids.