Mortgage Lender and the almighty FICO score

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
When I said my FICO score was zero I should have more properly said no score. I was not listed. My real estate loans were from a non bank lender, that is not a financial institution. I have not consciously avoided more traditional credit it just has never occurred to me to use a traditional credit solution for a financial transaction.

I have always been a private person as I grew up. I was an orphan and lost the family that adopted me as a 10 year old when I was 12. I lived in foster care homes until I was 16 and up until late teens everything I owned could be worn or put into my pockets and a backpack. I purchased my first home by signing a contract with the owner and making payments to him. He based my credit worthiness on his evaluation of me. I was drafted into the military and when I returned from Vietnam I purchased my second home the same way, and my third and so on. Other than real estate I don't want to ever owe anyone or anything ever. If things go bad I think of mortgage payments as rent and try not to worry about real real estate values but feel nervous about it. I have never gone beyond 10 years without paying off a mortgage. If I have a few dollars left at the end of a month it goes into the mortgage if I have one. I'll work extra hours to pay it down and go to great lengths to minimize other expenses. If I owed 10 or 20 thousand dollars on a credit card or other such debt I would not be able to sleep at night. I understand that this kind of thinking is almost un-American and people would call me stupid or uninformed or a financial cretin. I understand that all this financial behavior training has passed me by that's okay with me. Contrary to popular opinion my insurance has not been effected. I have very carefully checked this out. So, I'll just continue, it's too late to change now.




While I can appreciate your story-your life is being affected by not having a credit history. And credit is a factor that insurance companies use to determine risk. People with good credit-happen to file fewer claims-nobody is making that up-that's a fact. You don't fit in to that "box". While you are not being charged excessive insurance rates (according to your research)-I don't think you getting the "good credit" rates either.

BTW-those of us that "play the game" don't have 10 or 20 thousand on our insurance cards-but a balance we can comfortably pay in thirty days.

The bigger question is-Why did you avoid banks as a means to finance real estate? Do you not trust them?


I don't believe "it's not too late to change" either!
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Coprolite

There are no rules saying that you have to use credit cards, just having them. When you can get at least 2% cash back by using them, you do leave $ on the table. It just takes discipline to do it and stay on budget. It seems you have all that.


Correct- there are a LOT of things in LIFE that are NOT FAIR... and credit reporting is one of them!

I don't know how they do auto insurance up in your neck of the woods, but a good credit score means savings of over $1300 a year in insurance for me.
 
Originally Posted By: CKN
BTW-those of us that "play the game" don't have 10 or 20 thousand on our insurance cards-but a balance we can comfortably pay in thirty days.


Basically about 35% of the people out there don't carry a balance on their card every month. That's how you play the game. We're known as "deadbeats" because the banks don't make any money on us through interest rates, but they typically charge the merchant a swipe fee like 35 cents per transaction and a percentage of the total transaction, anywhere from 2-3% depending on the volume of the merchant so they can still make money on those that pay off the whole balance.

The game is being played whether you have a credit card or not. People who pay cash are actually subsidizing those that use credit cards. You can either learn how to play the game to win, or pretend that you're not playing and lose when you don't know it and go on a crazy old man rant about how it's all fixed. The point is that it IS fixed. Many of us knew that a long time ago.
 
I pay for everything with my credit card, and pay it in full each month. I love not carrying any cash, and if I lose my wallet or the card number gets stolen I am not responsible for any charges that aren't mine. I can also do a chargeback if services aren't rendered. I never use my debit card or even carry it with me. Added benefit are the rewards!

You know what Dave Ramsey can do with his envelopes.
 
Originally Posted By: dishdude
I pay for everything with my credit card, and pay it in full each month. I love not carrying any cash, and if I lose my wallet or the card number gets stolen I am not responsible for any charges that aren't mine. I can also do a chargeback if services aren't rendered. I never use my debit card or even carry it with me. Added benefit are the rewards!

You know what Dave Ramsey can do with his envelopes.



LOL!!
smirk.gif
Good one!
 
Originally Posted By: CKN



Of course-they are now all paid for-and have appreciated in value dramatically. The only issue we face-is at what point in time do we liquidate them and put the proceeds in to the trust?


Do you have children?

If you do leave them to the children, they can sell them tax free (stepped up basis) upon your death. If you must sell in your lifetime please look into a 1031 exchange. Don't pay all of the capital gains and depreciation recapture if you don't have to.
 
Originally Posted By: 04SE
Originally Posted By: CKN



Of course-they are now all paid for-and have appreciated in value dramatically. The only issue we face-is at what point in time do we liquidate them and put the proceeds in to the trust?


Do you have children?

If you do leave them to the children, they can sell them tax free (stepped up basis) upon your death. If you must sell in your lifetime please look into a 1031 exchange. Don't pay all of the capital gains and depreciation recapture if you don't have to.


Yes-we have children. And I do APPRECIATE the advice.
 
Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
When I said my FICO score was zero I should have more properly said no score. I was not listed. My real estate loans were from a non bank lender, that is not a financial institution. I have not consciously avoided more traditional credit it just has never occurred to me to use a traditional credit solution for a financial transaction.

I have always been a private person as I grew up. I was an orphan and lost the family that adopted me as a 10 year old when I was 12. I lived in foster care homes until I was 16 and up until late teens everything I owned could be worn or put into my pockets and a backpack. I purchased my first home by signing a contract with the owner and making payments to him. He based my credit worthiness on his evaluation of me. I was drafted into the military and when I returned from Vietnam I purchased my second home the same way, and my third and so on. Other than real estate I don't want to ever owe anyone or anything ever. If things go bad I think of mortgage payments as rent and try not to worry about real real estate values but feel nervous about it. I have never gone beyond 10 years without paying off a mortgage. If I have a few dollars left at the end of a month it goes into the mortgage if I have one. I'll work extra hours to pay it down and go to great lengths to minimize other expenses. If I owed 10 or 20 thousand dollars on a credit card or other such debt I would not be able to sleep at night. I understand that this kind of thinking is almost un-American and people would call me stupid or uninformed or a financial cretin. I understand that all this financial behavior training has passed me by that's okay with me. Contrary to popular opinion my insurance has not been effected. I have very carefully checked this out. So, I'll just continue, it's too late to change now.




While I can appreciate your story-your life is being affected by not having a credit history. And credit is a factor that insurance companies use to determine risk. People with good credit-happen to file fewer claims-nobody is making that up-that's a fact. You don't fit in to that "box". While you are not being charged excessive insurance rates (according to your research)-I don't think you getting the "good credit" rates either.

BTW-those of us that "play the game" don't have 10 or 20 thousand on our insurance cards-but a balance we can comfortably pay in thirty days.

The bigger question is-Why did you avoid banks as a means to finance real estate? Do you not trust them?


I don't believe "it's not too late to change" either!


On edit- "credit cards".
 
Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
When I said my FICO score was zero I should have more properly said no score. I was not listed. My real estate loans were from a non bank lender, that is not a financial institution. I have not consciously avoided more traditional credit it just has never occurred to me to use a traditional credit solution for a financial transaction.

I have always been a private person as I grew up. I was an orphan and lost the family that adopted me as a 10 year old when I was 12. I lived in foster care homes until I was 16 and up until late teens everything I owned could be worn or put into my pockets and a backpack. I purchased my first home by signing a contract with the owner and making payments to him. He based my credit worthiness on his evaluation of me. I was drafted into the military and when I returned from Vietnam I purchased my second home the same way, and my third and so on. Other than real estate I don't want to ever owe anyone or anything ever. If things go bad I think of mortgage payments as rent and try not to worry about real real estate values but feel nervous about it. I have never gone beyond 10 years without paying off a mortgage. If I have a few dollars left at the end of a month it goes into the mortgage if I have one. I'll work extra hours to pay it down and go to great lengths to minimize other expenses. If I owed 10 or 20 thousand dollars on a credit card or other such debt I would not be able to sleep at night. I understand that this kind of thinking is almost un-American and people would call me stupid or uninformed or a financial cretin. I understand that all this financial behavior training has passed me by that's okay with me. Contrary to popular opinion my insurance has not been effected. I have very carefully checked this out. So, I'll just continue, it's too late to change now.




While I can appreciate your story-your life is being affected by not having a credit history. And credit is a factor that insurance companies use to determine risk. People with good credit-happen to file fewer claims-nobody is making that up-that's a fact. You don't fit in to that "box". While you are not being charged excessive insurance rates (according to your research)-I don't think you getting the "good credit" rates either.

BTW-those of us that "play the game" don't have 10 or 20 thousand on our insurance cards-but a balance we can comfortably pay in thirty days.

The bigger question is-Why did you avoid banks as a means to finance real estate? Do you not trust them?


I don't believe "it's not too late to change" either!


Too late for what? I don't need credit for anything beyond my current home and that is only for about 20 more months, less if I continue my current pace. I've just made about 20 consecutive double payments.

I did not consciously avoid banks and your statement might infer that I did it because of a problem. Not so. My first mortgage just worked out the way and then I repeated the process. And I'm here to tell you that I've gone over the rating stuff with my insurance carrier and I'm not up rated for lack of a credit history. I've been with the same company since 1966 and I've been told that my history with them is far more important than a FICO score in my case. I've never filed a claim, never had a ticket or an accident. I do receive a discount for being accident and ticket free, multiple vehicles, combined policies and a vet.

I understand the idea of having and using a credit card and buying things other than one's home with credit especially a car or truck but it just doesn't work for me. It's okay though. I look like a normal person and people that see me out and about don't know so I'm safe (lol).

I recently purchased my last new vehicle a 2003 4Runner and I understand that paying cash was probably a detriment to the deal instead of an advantage. Someone, somewhere missed out on collecting the interest or at least getting me into their database for a no interest loan and having to handle a cashier's check for the purchase amount which is not the normal way to do business. In fact I made my purchase just in time, no Bluetooth, no touch screen and not a lot of other stuff between me and driving. And the transmission is the last 4Runner to have a dipstick, too. I'm a happy camper about that. I park it right next to my 84 Civic.
 
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
When I said my FICO score was zero I should have more properly said no score. I was not listed. My real estate loans were from a non bank lender, that is not a financial institution. I have not consciously avoided more traditional credit it just has never occurred to me to use a traditional credit solution for a financial transaction.

I have always been a private person as I grew up. I was an orphan and lost the family that adopted me as a 10 year old when I was 12. I lived in foster care homes until I was 16 and up until late teens everything I owned could be worn or put into my pockets and a backpack. I purchased my first home by signing a contract with the owner and making payments to him. He based my credit worthiness on his evaluation of me. I was drafted into the military and when I returned from Vietnam I purchased my second home the same way, and my third and so on. Other than real estate I don't want to ever owe anyone or anything ever. If things go bad I think of mortgage payments as rent and try not to worry about real real estate values but feel nervous about it. I have never gone beyond 10 years without paying off a mortgage. If I have a few dollars left at the end of a month it goes into the mortgage if I have one. I'll work extra hours to pay it down and go to great lengths to minimize other expenses. If I owed 10 or 20 thousand dollars on a credit card or other such debt I would not be able to sleep at night. I understand that this kind of thinking is almost un-American and people would call me stupid or uninformed or a financial cretin. I understand that all this financial behavior training has passed me by that's okay with me. Contrary to popular opinion my insurance has not been effected. I have very carefully checked this out. So, I'll just continue, it's too late to change now.




While I can appreciate your story-your life is being affected by not having a credit history. And credit is a factor that insurance companies use to determine risk. People with good credit-happen to file fewer claims-nobody is making that up-that's a fact. You don't fit in to that "box". While you are not being charged excessive insurance rates (according to your research)-I don't think you getting the "good credit" rates either.

BTW-those of us that "play the game" don't have 10 or 20 thousand on our insurance cards-but a balance we can comfortably pay in thirty days.

The bigger question is-Why did you avoid banks as a means to finance real estate? Do you not trust them?


I don't believe "it's not too late to change" either!


Too late for what? I don't need credit for anything beyond my current home and that is only for about 20 more months, less if I continue my current pace. I've just made about 20 consecutive double payments.

I did not consciously avoid banks and your statement might infer that I did it because of a problem. Not so. My first mortgage just worked out the way and then I repeated the process. And I'm here to tell you that I've gone over the rating stuff with my insurance carrier and I'm not up rated for lack of a credit history. I've been with the same company since 1966 and I've been told that my history with them is far more important than a FICO score in my case. I've never filed a claim, never had a ticket or an accident. I do receive a discount for being accident and ticket free, multiple vehicles, combined policies and a vet.

I understand the idea of having and using a credit card and buying things other than one's home with credit especially a car or truck but it just doesn't work for me. It's okay though. I look like a normal person and people that see me out and about don't know so I'm safe (lol).

I recently purchased my last new vehicle a 2003 4Runner and I understand that paying cash was probably a detriment to the deal instead of an advantage. Someone, somewhere missed out on collecting the interest or at least getting me into their database for a no interest loan and having to handle a cashier's check for the purchase amount which is not the normal way to do business. In fact I made my purchase just in time, no Bluetooth, no touch screen and not a lot of other stuff between me and driving. And the transmission is the last 4Runner to have a dipstick, too. I'm a happy camper about that. I park it right next to my 84 Civic.





I never said you had a problem. However-if you bought THREE HOMES without a conventional financial institution-you SUBCONSCIOUSLY avoided banks. For what ever underlying reasons.
 
Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
When I said my FICO score was zero I should have more properly said no score. I was not listed. My real estate loans were from a non bank lender, that is not a financial institution. I have not consciously avoided more traditional credit it just has never occurred to me to use a traditional credit solution for a financial transaction.

I have always been a private person as I grew up. I was an orphan and lost the family that adopted me as a 10 year old when I was 12. I lived in foster care homes until I was 16 and up until late teens everything I owned could be worn or put into my pockets and a backpack. I purchased my first home by signing a contract with the owner and making payments to him. He based my credit worthiness on his evaluation of me. I was drafted into the military and when I returned from Vietnam I purchased my second home the same way, and my third and so on. Other than real estate I don't want to ever owe anyone or anything ever. If things go bad I think of mortgage payments as rent and try not to worry about real real estate values but feel nervous about it. I have never gone beyond 10 years without paying off a mortgage. If I have a few dollars left at the end of a month it goes into the mortgage if I have one. I'll work extra hours to pay it down and go to great lengths to minimize other expenses. If I owed 10 or 20 thousand dollars on a credit card or other such debt I would not be able to sleep at night. I understand that this kind of thinking is almost un-American and people would call me stupid or uninformed or a financial cretin. I understand that all this financial behavior training has passed me by that's okay with me. Contrary to popular opinion my insurance has not been effected. I have very carefully checked this out. So, I'll just continue, it's too late to change now.




While I can appreciate your story-your life is being affected by not having a credit history. And credit is a factor that insurance companies use to determine risk. People with good credit-happen to file fewer claims-nobody is making that up-that's a fact. You don't fit in to that "box". While you are not being charged excessive insurance rates (according to your research)-I don't think you getting the "good credit" rates either.

BTW-those of us that "play the game" don't have 10 or 20 thousand on our insurance cards-but a balance we can comfortably pay in thirty days.

The bigger question is-Why did you avoid banks as a means to finance real estate? Do you not trust them?


I don't believe "it's not too late to change" either!


Too late for what? I don't need credit for anything beyond my current home and that is only for about 20 more months, less if I continue my current pace. I've just made about 20 consecutive double payments.

I did not consciously avoid banks and your statement might infer that I did it because of a problem. Not so. My first mortgage just worked out the way and then I repeated the process. And I'm here to tell you that I've gone over the rating stuff with my insurance carrier and I'm not up rated for lack of a credit history. I've been with the same company since 1966 and I've been told that my history with them is far more important than a FICO score in my case. I've never filed a claim, never had a ticket or an accident. I do receive a discount for being accident and ticket free, multiple vehicles, combined policies and a vet.

I understand the idea of having and using a credit card and buying things other than one's home with credit especially a car or truck but it just doesn't work for me. It's okay though. I look like a normal person and people that see me out and about don't know so I'm safe (lol).

I recently purchased my last new vehicle a 2003 4Runner and I understand that paying cash was probably a detriment to the deal instead of an advantage. Someone, somewhere missed out on collecting the interest or at least getting me into their database for a no interest loan and having to handle a cashier's check for the purchase amount which is not the normal way to do business. In fact I made my purchase just in time, no Bluetooth, no touch screen and not a lot of other stuff between me and driving. And the transmission is the last 4Runner to have a dipstick, too. I'm a happy camper about that. I park it right next to my 84 Civic.





I never said you had a problem. However-if you bought THREE HOMES without a conventional financial institution-you SUBCONSCIOUSLY avoided banks. For what ever underlying reasons.


So if I purchased 3 homes from a bank then by your logic I was seeking out banks.

Actually I've purchased more then 3, some with cash and have sold 5 with a two party contract, no bank involved and all 5 went all the way to the final payment without a problem. I charged no service fees or interest. The price was fair enough and there was no need to add any charges. All 5 would probably not have been able to get a traditional home loan. One became a wounded warrior from the recent wars and when he returned I wrote of the rest of the loan. You won't hear about that either because I did it for my own reasons and I don't need anyone's approval or blessing. It's not that I have any problems or anything to hide I just choose to go my own way and among my friends I'm just one of many. We have no ax to grind, no message and no cause to promote. Actually we have just about nothing to say about our financial lives. This thread just may be more than I've said to a group of strangers because if you live a different life style there are those that feel obliged to point out the error of your ways.


There are a lot of these kinds of transaction. You just don't see or hear about them. If you follow the rules then you go to the bank or other formal financial institution. There's nothing wrong with either way. Some people know that their way is the only way and that's okay, too.
 
Quote:
I know, I know. This does not apply to you because you pay off the balance every month, don't you?

Correct, as any responsible CC user does so thanks for clarifying that. As for "I'm Roger btw", one thing missing from his outfit is his tin foil hat. However, "Cracked" seems an apt name for his network.
 
Bottom line, those lending money can pretty much use whatever guidelines or whims they want to determine who they do business with.

Back in the day mortgages were given by local banks with a local underwriter who knew something about the person, something about the job that person did, something about his chances of remaining an upstanding citizen in the community paying his bills and acting responsible. And they also understood the real estate market and if the underwriter thought the price you were paying was too high, then forget about the mortgage. In those days, the approach taken by the OP would get him that mortgage without too much difficulty.

That was 50 or 60 years ago (when my father brought our first home). Times have changed, paying underwriters to do that work is far too expensive. Now the underwriting is done electronically using the latest technology. If you don't fit within the criteria determined by this form of underwriting with artificial intelligence, then you likely will not get a loan at the best rate. It is relatively simple economics as it is too expensive to manually underwrite all of those loans.
 
I like this conversation. The people involved are the ones who are aware of the issues and have voluntarily chosen a path. The only difference is that one group might come out a little ahead monetarily at the trade off of the financial industry being able to profile them down to the % spent on cheese wiz.

I don't see anything wrong with the choice not to have a CC, but it isn't for me. There are too many risks and inefficiencies, especially as I have a multinational family. Even with no more international travel for work, I still have to keep the international scene on the radar. I also made the decision to own a car and pay as I went and valued retirement investment over early payment of the loan. The savings return far exceeded the interest charged. If mortgage interest weren't tax deductible, I would consider paying it off early. There is risk involved in how I run my life and I don't maximize every dollar that I touch. I don't think any of us do. We just choose where we like to maximize and where we choose to ignore the opportunities.

I hope that none involved in this conversation actually carry CC balances and are subject to the obscene interest rates charged. That is a tough place to be in and a difficult hole to dig out from...
 
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
.....

Some people know that their way is the only way and that's okay, too.



The irony is that they think those that disagree are the ones who are inexperienced or clueless.
 
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
I know, I know. This does not apply to you because you pay off the balance every month, don't you?




Love that video.
 
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
I think alot is lost by faithful Dave Ramsey followers, who I don't agree with at all.
The point is you are missing all the advantages that responsible credit card users enjoy because you don't want to use a credit card in the system it was designed for. So just complain and be miserable and listen to that idiot Dave Ramsey. The rest of us enjoy the cash back, benefits and enjoy the system in place.
When your in Rome, Don't do as the Greek.


I will say one thing I saw the other day I hadn't thought all the way through... Some of this "cash back" and bonuses we are actually just paying for. Businesses are charged a fee to be allowed to use credit cards. That is part of where the cash back comes from. As a result goods prices are raised to compensate for the % loss businesses are hit with. This isn't where all of these rewards/cash back are funded from of course but still. Nothing is free... I mostly have cards for all of the reasons suggested regarding credit score and borrowing history/power. But trying to get cash back in any meaningful amount is too much work.
 
Originally Posted By: HemiHawk
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
I think alot is lost by faithful Dave Ramsey followers, who I don't agree with at all.
The point is you are missing all the advantages that responsible credit card users enjoy because you don't want to use a credit card in the system it was designed for. So just complain and be miserable and listen to that idiot Dave Ramsey. The rest of us enjoy the cash back, benefits and enjoy the system in place.
When your in Rome, Don't do as the Greek.


I will say one thing I saw the other day I hadn't thought all the way through... Some of this "cash back" and bonuses we are actually just paying for. Businesses are charged a fee to be allowed to use credit cards. That is part of where the cash back comes from. As a result goods prices are raised to compensate for the % loss businesses are hit with. This isn't where all of these rewards/cash back are funded from of course but still. Nothing is free... I mostly have cards for all of the reasons suggested regarding credit score and borrowing history/power. But trying to get cash back in any meaningful amount is too much work.


I mentioned that several posts back. There's the swipe fee and the percentage that the merchant is charged to use the card. In effect, prices are raised to cover the fees so those that are paying cash are actually subsidizing the credit card users. The cash back is simple for me though, just gets deposited in my Fidelity account and I do it whenever I get around to it which can be months later, but it can be several hundred dollars. It's only good for 35% of the people though, for those who can't pay off the balance every month, it's not a good deal.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom