Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Java,
You espouse some "ethics" or "moral conduct" is breached here.
Here's where you're missing a great deal. While I believe that anyone entering into a marriage contract be committed to it ..we KNOW DARN WELL that the reality is often less than ideal.
Actually, what I said was the expectations on both sides of the gender line seldom match reality, and both men and women are ultimately disappointed, but for different reasons.
However, looking at who files for divorce, women, who it's falsely believed are more interested in family than men, are twice as likely to break up the family than are men.
Men and women are equally represented in affairs, so there is no gender basis for moral superiority in regards to that.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Women don't marry (typically) with a "passion partner" as a goal. Men ..almost always do.
Women are looking for a good provider and someone to tolerate and foster their "nesting" compulsions.
Men typically are not aligned with this as a "goal".
Women often put their husbands on the back burner when children come around ..while never relieving him of his obligation to her ..nor asking if he relieves her of the obligation to him as a partner. She wants all his help in the enterprise ..but also want's out of her obligation to him.
Now you can twist this and say that he's just being selfish and whatnot ..but so is she. Who says that she's allowed to become a slacker and a delinquent mate? No one FORCES her to become a lack luster sexual partner ..SHE CHOOSES TO.
Again, I never assigned selfishness to either gender, and clearly said that both men and women are selfish. That selfishness manifests itself differently in men and women, but it's selfishness none the less.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I had a discussion with a friend of my wife. She said that women don't care if the guy they pair up with is sexually proficient ..exciting ..whatever. She said that they wanted them to treat them nice ..talk to them ...care about them ..etc..etc.
I then informed her that while those things aren't important to her...BEING DESIRED is VERY important to her man.
Now this doesn't mean that men aren't equally as negligent. They typically aren't the most romantically inspirational after the bonding ritual ...but that doesn't stop the need/desire.
If you're going to spout some notion of "sacrifice" for the team and "sucking it up" for the choices that you made ...then you have to agree that the bending over backwards (or otherwise) in EARNEST effort ..is something that should be required by both.
I don't think I said anything to the contrary. If you look at what Dr Harley says in his many books, he advocates people meeting their spouses emotional needs. In his book "His Needs, Her Needs..." he gives the ten most common needs, five from the list of men's typical top needs and five from the list of women's typical top needs.
He says a relationship is at risk if one or both spouses dismisses or disregards these needs.
However, even that is no excuse for an affair.
But the notion that men are unfaithful and women are victims is a bald faced lie. Like I've said before, women are not any more faithful or innocent in the arena of extra marital affairs.
Frankly, I have no problem with the betrayed spouse splitting any assets of a cheating spouse.
Heck, I'm all for alienation of affection laws too.
And if I ran the universe, being unfaithful would be an automatic unfit parent determination. No unfaithful spouse would ever be the primary custodian of a child if I ran things.
If they want to leave, I'd say they can leave the marriage if they want to. However, any assets or children produced by the marriage go to the spouse who is being betrayed or abandoned by the unfaithful or unwilling to keep her vows spouse.
Of course, we'll never see this happen. Folks have bought into the lie that women are victims and men are the perpetrators.
I don't think in the case of a married man or women, his or her lover should be entitled to any assets, retirement, etc. However, I'd say that he or she would likely forfeit the share accumulated during the marriage if the betrayed spouse decides to end the marriage.
I'm all for making marriage difficult.
I'm also for making it expensive to just give up without actually trying to do the work marriage really takes.
Most marriages don't work because those in the marriage think it's going to be some romantic fantasy (women), or some care-free porn romp (men).
Affairs are appealing because you don't deal with the daily dirty tasks such as taking care of kids, living in a budget, dealing with that person's dirty laundry or annoying habits.
So those who choose to engage in affairs are just chasing another fantasy, instead of facing reality.
The problem is, kids and betrayed spouses are injured in such cases, and in extreme cases, someone is killed. Sometimes it's the betrayed spouse, being killed so the lovers can run off with the assets. Sometimes it's one or both of the lovers killed by the betrayed spouse.
It's a touchy subject with me, as I lived through the betrayal by my former wife. For being clueless. For thinking that if I treat her well, earn enough that she can be a stay at home mom, etc, she would be faithful, be open and honest about how she felt, etc, I now get to be a part time dad simply because some judge decides her affair means nothing and her time as a stay at home mom makes her better suited to be the primary custodial parent.
My (former) church, who preaches all this pro-family stuff, did nothing when her affair was brought to the attention of the church leadership. Even when I went to the pastor asking about the scripture dealing with church discipline and how the church is to try to win a sinning member back to the fellowship, they chose not to act. In fact, I was asked what I did to force her to have an affair.
Needless to say, I've not been in that church in years.
Well, I've come as close to S,R and P as I think I can without getting this thread locked. This post skirts all of them, and they are all intertwined in this subject.
So I'll end it now, and go take an extra dose of my BP medicine, I think I worked myself up.
My talented daughter and I are headed to church tonight, so I can turn that passion about this subject into something more pleasing.
