More bad news for EV's

[Astro14]

At this point if I had a Tesla to rent I'd be rather OK with it as long as it was delivered with a decent state of charge. Not sure about other EVs as I haven't had experience - and especially not driving one in an unfamiliar place. I get that many have navigation to EV charging, but the Tesla ecosystem with real time availability is a huge plus in my book.

That is one of the biggest problems that Hertz had with their EV experience - they were handing out vehicles at 30-50% charge.

So, the customers had to first, find a charger, and then, they were able to go about their business.

Absolutely atrocious customer experience.

My stepson rented a couple of times from Hertz and was given a vehicle at 25-30%. He could barely make it out of DC before having to charge, fully charge, thus turning a 4 hour drive to see us into a 5 hour drive.

Gee…thanks Hertz, for giving the customer an immediate problem instead of transportation.

I have several hundred rentals with Hertz. And I am still Hertz Gold, lifetime Hertz Gold. But the Hertz of today is a very different company than it was say, 20 years ago, or even 10 years ago, when I was renting two or three times a month.

Employees are sullen, their service perfunctory, the cars are not clean, and have high mileage. The decision to go to EV in that company culture/climate was foolish, because the uncaring, unprofessional, and frankly sloppy, employees, didn’t bother to recharge the cars before handing them out to a customer.

 

[ZZman]

1. Change is often hard.
2. Range anxiety still exists
3. Too few charging stations
5. EV vehicle prices need to come down

 

[y_p_w]

Tesla isn't exactly the best example of EV technology and architecture, lol.

I have an 80mi commute 3mi per hr = about 40mi while Im at work. It would be nice.

Tesla does have an incredibly good charging infrastructure though. I can't think of any real criticisms over a system that has real time information on the availability

I certainly can't argue against somthing that's free. The only issue is that often when it's free, there are people who seek that out and maybe it's not available because someone else got to it first. In an employee parking lot it's going to require some sort of cooperation, and if it's not available, there needs to be an alternative like finding another charging system or just going home.

 

[y_p_w]

That is one of the biggest problems that Hertz had with their EV experience - they were handing out vehicles at 30-50% charge.

I know you had a lot of other criticisms of what Hertz has become, and that's fair. I got a rental from Hertz once that was categorized as "5/8 full" and wasn't too happy about it. I probably could have asked for a full tank (I wasn't in a hurry) but they seemed kind of swamped.

However, the big problem with Hertz was that they simply didn't build up an adequate charging infrastructure onsite. Now that they're downsizing their EV fleet but still increasing their EV charging, it should mean that the likelihood of delivering an EV with a higher state of charge should be improved. Obviously their preference would be that renters return EVs with a near full charge, but obviously many renters will just pay the penalty, especially with corporate rentals where it's someone else paying it. I've had corporate rentals where I was told they had a special deal for gas so don't worry about the fuel level unless I'm going to run out.

 

[Trav]

1. Change is often hard.
2. Range anxiety still exists
3. Too few charging stations
5. EV vehicle prices need to come down

Change can also be very easy, going from incandescent bulbs to LED, flat screen TV instead of old tubes just two small examples was very easy. Those changes had huge plusses and saved money. EV's are a different story, the benefits may be non existent for many and may actually make things worse in some ways. When you have to force or incentivise people to buy something there is a problem, it means what you are selling or pushing would not be bought on its own merits.

 

[bbhero]

I said this in that other thread that got zapped…. And is gone.

Yet I will state it again….


Guys like y_p_w, Ws6 and Torrid are not like a whole lot of other EV owners… Because these guys are very, very smart and think about how best to take care of, maintain, and charge their EVs.

A very high majority of other people in this country are no where near as knowledgeable and pay enough attention to do what they need to do to take the best care of their vehicles.

These rental places have some real WORLD CHAMPIONS working in those places…

They couldn’t be trusted with taking care of a blender… much less a EV…

 

[Danno]

That is one of the biggest problems that Hertz had with their EV experience - they were handing out vehicles at 30-50% charge

Couldn't bother to recharge the cars before handing them out to a customer.

Thinking lack of charging infrastructure would have been a big factor. They would need what, 30-50 chargers to turn these cars around. Highly doubt they had nearly that many available, off or onsite.
And how many p'd off customers would you have because EVs.

 

[alarmguy]

It's like the movie "Ground Hog Day" on several of these topics …

agree, I’ve been feeling that way

 

[Astro14]

Thinking lack of charging infrastructure would have been a big factor. They would need what, 30-50 chargers to turn these cars around. Highly doubt they had nearly that many available, off or onsite.
And how many p'd off customers would you have because EVs.

A company that buys a fleet of vehicles without any way to recharge / refuel them, is a company without effective leadership.

That is an epic failure in thinking things through.

If they handed out cars, fully charged, even 80%, it would’ve been a much more successful venture.

But the way they managed it was doomed to failure.

 

[y_p_w]

Thinking lack of charging infrastructure would have been a big factor. They would need what, 30-50 chargers to turn these cars around. Highly doubt they had nearly that many available, off or onsite.
And how many p'd off customers would you have because EVs.

I found this, where Hertz installed 42 Tesla Wall Connectors at their space in the consolidated car rental garage at Tampa Airport. It does look odd since their lead photo shows a Hyundai being charged with what looks like a J1772 adapter duct taped to the Tesla NACS connector. This was before the Universal Wall Connector was available. And the car made it all the way to Tampa from New Jersey.

https://news.tampaairport.com/hertz...e-charging-stations-at-tpa-rental-car-center/

 

[Rmay635703]

Even worse news for ICE vehicles, Alfa Romeo only sold 25% as many vehicles in the US as Rivian.

It is true this isn’t just an EV issue.
Historically your car lost 50% of its value as soon as you drove off the lot, that was true nearly 70 years.

With interest rates near historically normal levels that may become reality again and lots of financing schemes that never made sense will go away.

Cars maintaining or even increasing in value is unnatural, any company banking on that is going be in for a rude awakening.

 

[Astro14]

I found this, where Hertz installed 42 Tesla Wall Connectors at their space in the consolidated car rental garage at Tampa Airport. It does look odd since their lead photo shows a Hyundai being charged with what looks like a J1772 adapter duct taped to the Tesla NACS connector. This was before the Universal Wall Connector was available. And the car made it all the way to Tampa from New Jersey.

https://news.tampaairport.com/hertz...e-charging-stations-at-tpa-rental-car-center/

I think that is the root of the problem - a mid sized Hertz location like Tampa has several hundred to several thousand cars in its inventory.

42 chargers?

And it takes how long to charge?

And how often do the cars come back in with low charge?

What corporate dipstick thought that would be enough?

The proof that it was insufficient? The cars went to customers discharged.

 

[y_p_w]

I think that is the root of the problem - a mid sized Hertz location like Tampa has several hundred to several thousand cars in its inventory.

42 chargers?

And it takes how long to charge?

And how often do the cars come back in with low charge?

What corporate dipstick thought that would be enough?

The proof that it was insufficient? The cars went to customers discharged.

How many would be EVs? I do see a lot of Polestars in the background. It may be referring to this as an additional installation, since Hertz has been renting lots of EVs since at least 2021.

 

[loneryder]

I was thrown into the deep end in 1998, ordering material for a big fibre optic build. My company had recently moved over to SAP. I blundered through it, made likely every mistake possible, and then got some training a few weeks later. It was actually a good way to learn in a hurry.

I was the go-to guy for SAP problems in our department for the next almost 20 years. Before I retired I made how-to sheets for all of the common procedures (creating PRs, creating POs, doing GRs, etc.) on the MM (Materials Management) side.

I would summarize by saying I considered SAP powerful but very unintuitive.

Oracle is not any better.

 

[Torrid]

I think that is the root of the problem - a mid sized Hertz location like Tampa has several hundred to several thousand cars in its inventory.

42 chargers?

And it takes how long to charge?

And how often do the cars come back in with low charge?

What corporate dipstick thought that would be enough?

The proof that it was insufficient? The cars went to customers discharged.

Those are level 2 chargers as well so if they come back dead you could be looking at 7-9 hours to charge which is why the exact situation you mentioned explains exactly how it happened.

 

[y_p_w]

Those are level 2 chargers as well so if they come back dead you could be looking at 7-9 hours to charge which is why the exact situation you mentioned explains exactly how it happened.

I believe one of the issues is that they might have a bunch returned and stashed overnight, but where they run out of charging stations. I wonder how they might rotate them in/out once charged to a sufficient level if they're limited on charging. Ideally they would have as many charging stations as they have EVs at any particular time so they don't have to mess around with employees moving them around.

On top of that, it might make sense to have a few DC fast chargers just in case when they're really pressed to put more EVs in service with reasonable charge.

Still - all that employee time to get gas matters too.

 

[alarmguy]

It's like the movie "Ground Hog Day" on several of these topics anymore..............

and I am doing it again today

 

[JHZR2]

I think that is the root of the problem - a mid sized Hertz location like Tampa has several hundred to several thousand cars in its inventory.

42 chargers?

And it takes how long to charge?

And how often do the cars come back in with low charge?

What corporate dipstick thought that would be enough?

The proof that it was insufficient? The cars went to customers discharged.

There wasn’t a single even wall plug charger available at the Hertz at Seattle airport. I have a thread on my experiences there.

Our local “neighborhood corner store” Hertz location, where we rented a Tesla from once for fun (the kids wanted to ride in one) has at least three small wall mounted chargers on their building. They’re probably only 5kW or so, not giant, but they at least had them.

I think you’re supposed to return the car with 75% SOC. No EV I’ve ever rented (I think I’ve had them at least five times now) has ever told me anything. But as much of crooks as the rental car places are, I wasnt going to find out.

 

[SC Maintenance]

The rental car companies hire the lowest wage earners that are willing to travel to and deal with the airport every day. This is predictable.

This is the reason that McDonalds monitors the cooktop and freezer temperature remotely, and turns store lights on and off automatically. Its not a judgement of their employees, its about management understanding their limitations and mitigating them.

The EV car rental was purely stupid CEO's trying to catch headlines and get cocktail party invites. The same group that tried to put their customers in jail for stealing their rental car because they were incapable of checking the car back in properly. Again, doesn't surprise me at all.

 

[PandaBear]

I was just listening to Last Call on CNBC and they had a Toyota/Lexus dealer saying that an EV loses 40% of its value rolling off the lot. He also stated that most dealers won't take an EV on trade, too risky. It coincides with what my friends in the car business have been telling me for a few years now, and fits in with the articles posted. He called the EVs " A [I'll stay away from politics] Blunder." Hybrids seem to be the way to go, according to the CNBC guest, and ICE sales are strong as well.

This is the right way to protect yourself from risks.

Any new technology would have uncertainty that could bankrupt a business. A dealer taking in a trade of any car it has no certain way of selling is going to be a problem. Look at Nissan Leaf, that car should have at least 50% of its value left after 3 years but the dealers / Nissan lose a lot of money when the lease end, because of battery design problem. Tesla is currently safer because of the cool factor but it could turn ugly like PT Cruiser falling out of fashion.

What manufacturer could do is to guarantee something, or they will be facing these kind of problem. I know if I buy a Prius I can get replacement battery at reasonable cost so Prius kept its residual. Tesla, maybe. Nissan? It is a proven no already.

It is not really the EV. As you can see Prius is an EV with an engine and it holds pretty good residual. The company behinds it have to do the right thing to keep the dealers and customers happy to have good residual.

Honda was conservative when they initially only lease their Clarity EV for 2 years, no sales. When the lease came back still reliable, they lease it out for 2 more years with insurance on the house and unlimited miles. Good deal for everyone.