Mobil1 5w-30 2002 Pontiac Grand Am GM 3.4L

[bighead]

I gotcha... Like I said my OLM didn't go off after 5K on M1, so I changed it anyway (engine just too dang noisy with it in there) and put in the GC. I reset it so hopefully I can rack up about 6-7K before it goes off. I think because I do alot of highway driving...

 

[MN Driver]

quote:

---

Part of what was originally posted by Terry:
new car purchase.

---

Sorry, forgot to mention, the car was purchased used 11k miles before the warranty expired, got it $7,000 less than it originally would have been when new. I would never buy a car brand new, something I will be against unless I've got way too much money to spend someday(hey, who knows)...

I'll hang on to this one as long as I can, but i'll pay very close attention because anything that might turn into an obvious problem and it will be sold if something seems to poke its head out.

 

[The Critic]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Terry:
My wife is leveraging me heavily to purchase a Rendevous ( buick kid hauler SUV) and they only come with a 3.4 V6.

---

Terry,
I took the time to scan this page from my Consumer Report's Annual Auto Issue from April 2004. The Rendevous does come with an option of the 3.6L V6 in the top-of-the-line model, which I think is the same V6 that's in the CTS:

Michael

 

[TooSlick]

Brother Terry,

From a full up, Quad Four race car to a Texas Minivan? Oh, how the mighty have fallen...

I do think you should draw the line if the little lady asks you to wear a dress and sensible shoes while driving this beast....

Of course I also have more women than I know what to do with - that would be just The One. LOL!

TS

 

[TooSlick]

Terry,

I wanted to mention,I heard yesterday from a co-worker that Toyota is concerned about severe reprocussions (from US politicians no doubt), if/when GM stock goes under for the final time and Toyota passes GM in market share. So Toyota is actually planning to significantly RAISE their prices across the board to "help out".

Now how pathetic is that for the once proud tradition of General Motors and the still fine engineers who work there(?) - but have been "bean counted" and litigated to death....

Ted

 

[buster]

Terry with as much as you know about engines/oil, why on earth would you buy that particular car? How about a Rav4/CRV/Pilot/Escape?

 

[MN Driver]

LOL, this is funny

It's the wife that wants it...

 

[MN Driver]

Last night I completly disassembled the air intake system checked for any cracks in the tubing or anything that would seem to be able to bring in air, I didn't see any problems, I pulled the air filter too and reseated it, that seemed okay too, I tightened down all the clamps when I put it back together and the throttle body seems to be tight against it's gasket too. Would my thought of the silicon coming from my previous filter be a bad assumption? I'm just not seeing anything else, would could I be missing in terms of dirt getting in?

I've got Mobil 1 5w-30 in there right now, but I think I might change that out in 500 miles(maybe to clean some crud out from the last OCI since it was long) and put in some 15w-40 HDEO, probably rotella and do a UOA at 3,000 miles with that oil, which will be mostly highway miles at that. I'm thinking it's the best that I can do until I can afford to take care of the real problem of the gasket(coolant) leak. I don't mind changing the oil to something that might protect because it's $20 vs. the cost of what it happening. I'm agreeing with the thick oil because of the Aluminum(bearing, head, and block wear), Iron(cylinder, rotating shafts wear?), Copper(bearings), Lead(bearings). I'm thinking that most of this is lower end wear and even with crud in the crankcase, wouldn't it be better off with a thicker oil for those lower end parts? I guess a UOA will be the determination of that. I'd like a quick yes or no, or maybe further suggestions, because I'd like to hear what you guys have to say.

[ June 10, 2005, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: MN Driver ]

 

[haley10]

If my shop did this repair and the problem still existed, they would stand behind the work and do it over. The service manager does understand uoa's to a degree. If your repair was done by GM, I would go over the dealer's head and demand a fix and at least get an explanation.

 

[MN Driver]

The problem is I don't live in the same state as the work got done in, so it would be Me vs. GM because I'm not driving from MN to OK to work it out. From the experience of other people with the 3.4L engine, this problem has been known to come back with some people having it done 3 or even more times, thats if the gasket doesnt suddenly dump the entire coolant reservoir into the oil at one time and destroy the engine, as i've read in a few stories when it happened. GM in the past hasn't done anything so I don't expect them to care now, it's a common problem.

 

[haley10]

MN, terrible. I did a lot of research and bought a used 3800 and passed up the 3.1 and 3.4's. My old 3.3 was good. The Internet is our friend when it comes to avoiding problematic engines.

The 3800 isn't perfect either, just less problematic. That's why I'm here doing uoa's.

Sorry for your pain. Especially read up on 2000 Avalons and 2.7L Mitsu Chrysler engines if you trade.

I still think your problem can be fixed and I'll see what I can find out.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Utilize Terry's services and see if you can't use the GM Coolant Tabs to seal it up a bit more until you can afford to have it replaced, if you can't do it yourself. I think the 3.4 labor is a little more involved than the 3.8.
Hopefully the leak isn't too big to be sealed with those tabs, that's a lot of tin and iron.
Definitely look into those tabs it may patch things up to get by.
I think the M1 is fine. You could throw some LC in if you have it.

 

[Cutehumor]

a little

this is why I love the UOA's even though some are boring. you will know which engines are more prone to coolant leaks and which ones are designed well.

 

[MN Driver]

I did a lot of research and bought a used 3800 and passed up the 3.1 and 3.4's.

I know some satified owners of Bonneville's with the 3800, they seem to be pretty nice, and many people on this forum agree that it is perhaps one of the best GM engines still around. I turned down the Grand Am with 2.2L Ecotec engine because it was only $500 more for the 3.4L V6. The depreciation of Grand Am's with the 4 cylinder engines seem to be pretty bad, not to say that the V6 has it that much better.

use the GM Coolant Tabs to seal it up a bit more
I called up the dealership nearest my house and they said "What coolant tabs", I tell them that I've got coolant in the oil and they said "What's it look like", I didn't bother telling him about the UOA because he sounded too ignorant to understand. Where do those tabs go? If it's an internal leak I would need to go in there and put them in, correct? If that was the case I would simply just replace the gasket.

You could throw some LC in if you have it.
I don't have any at this point, but since I won't be running beyond 3,000 until it gets fixed I don't think it would make that big of an improvement.

I've got the Haynes manual and the repair seems pretty simple, but I don't think I would be able to get through it all and get it back together by myself because I feel like I might get stuck somewhere and have nobody to ask for the solution because I would need to finish it in one day and I don't know any people who would be able to help with internal engine work. I would be able to afford it if I did it myself, but I don't have cash to have a shop do it, which I would feel more comfortable with. I've done many other things with a Grand Am: Alternator replacement, P/S pump replacement, brake jobs, repairing the blinker switch, doing fluid changes(oil, trans., coolant, p/s, replacing the battery. I've done a bunch of work on it, but I have never been in the engine so that is where i'm lost.

a little 'off topic' this is why I love the UOA's even though some are boring. you will know which engines are more prone to coolant leaks and which ones are designed well.
Yeah, not just coolant leaks but all sorts of engine problems. Heh, not just auto/truck engines, trans, industrial applications, aircraft, etc.

 

[TooSlick]

I'd recommend switching to a Propylene Gylcol (PG) coolant like Sierra instead of the Ethylene Glycol based "Dexcool". PG coolants are much less harmful to engine bearings in case of a coolant leak into the crankcase. If nothing else, the switch to PG coolant will probably minimize the damage until you can get the leak fixed.

At this point you also have to assume you have some coolant induced, acidic sludge in the engine and that should be addressed ASAP. I'd recommend doing a flush with a pint of Lube Control (LC-20) once or twice and see if you can't dissolve most of this crud and get it to drain out. Even if the leak were fixed today, this acidic sludge will remain inside the engine and cause problems.

Can anyone explain WHY this problem occurs so often? Is it a CTE mismatch between the intake manifold and the cylinder head, or a bad gasket design, or tolerances that are too out of spec to get proper sealing? Was it really worth "saving" a few dollars per engine to get this end result?

 

[MN Driver]

Thanks TooSlick, sounds like a good idea, I knew about PG but I didn't know that it would be less harmful. It seems my plan is to switch out Dexcool and swap in some PG coolant along with a change to a 15w-40 HDEO(still haven't decided which brand, probably Rotella).

I've heard bad gasket design, wrong tolerances, and/or wrong torque specifications, but I have no clue what the real issue is.

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

Michael Wan, Isn't that the Eco-Tech based 24Valve engine?

Maybe that Buick wouldn't be a bad idea with that engine under the hood. These 3.1/3.4's are just cr@p.

I would love to purchase a top level Olds Alero, but the coolant leak issue of the 3.4L is the deal breaker for me. Anyone own a 4cyl/5speed version of the Alero/Grand Am? Are they reliable, fuel efficient,etc?

 

[TooSlick]

T&S,

We have a fleet of the 4DR Aleros that are used as Government fleet cars for local TDY's in the Southeast. I've driven them for 4-6 hours at fairly high speeds

and they do just fine with the normally aspirated Ecotec engine and the auto trans (I've not driven the 5 speed). You'll never confuse one for an Audi A4, but the quality control and fit/finish are first rate and the back seat fits a 6" man. Fuel efficiency at 80-85 mph seems to be in the high 20's with the four cylinder - and they run fine on any 87 octane fuel.

I'd buy one if I had a kid going off to school and wanted a reasonably priced, safe car. The GM car I'd buy for myself is the Olds Intrigue, with the DOHC 3.5L, V-6. Now that's an Audi A6 for $10,000.00 less money....The dumbest thing GM ever did was stop making that platform, IMHO.

Ted

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

What coolant tabs??? Do me a favor and go slap that guy. Next he'll say GM doesn't have a coolant leak issue.
Then GM PN is P/N 3634621.
Or Bars leak p/n HDC or G12BP are supposed to be same stuff. DO NOT use anything else!
You just put the tabs in the radiator hose. The G12BP powder can probably just pour in rad cap.

The LC was not to extend drain in this case but to clean /neutralize and left over coolant as Ted said and neutralize any new coolant.

 

[FowVay]

quote:

---

Originally posted by TooSlick:
You'll never confuse one for an Audi A4, but the quality control and fit/finish are first rate and the back seat fits a 6" man.

Ted

---

OMG!

Ted, what on earth are you guys doing in the back seat of these government vehicles?

Sorry,, I couldn't pass it up