Mobil 1 & Seq IIIG

[buster]

Pennzoil is using this test to tout their engine cleanliness superiority. Unlike the IVA, this is a high temp and high load test. It's definitely a test that will give you a good indication of how well an oil can handle heat.

Quote:
A piston cleanliness test is also required because deposits can build on the piston crown causing pre ignition. Deposits can also build up on the piston undercrown, which increases piston temperature. Both can result in decreased performance.

To address this issue, the Sequence IIIG engine test was developed to evaluate high temperature deposits. The Sequence IIIG test is an oil thickening and piston deposit test run under high-temperature/high load conditions. This test also provides information about valve train wear. The test simulates high-speed service under relatively high temperature conditions.


http://www.swri.org/4org/D08/GasTests/IIIGtest/default.htm

For GF-4, the minimum weighted deposits allowed was 3.5. For GF-5, they now want a minimum of 4.0, which is a substantial increase.

Does anyone want to guess what Mobil 1 scored in this test?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: buster

For GF-4, the minimum weighted deposits allowed was 3.5.

Why is that a minimum and not a maximum? What does that value represent (unit of measure)?

 

[buster]

Not sure, good question.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: buster
Pennzoil is using this test to tout their engine cleanliness superiority. Unlike the IVA, this is a high temp and high load test. It's definitely a test that will give you a good indication of how well an oil can handle heat.

Quote:
A piston cleanliness test is also required because deposits can build on the piston crown causing pre ignition. Deposits can also build up on the piston undercrown, which increases piston temperature. Both can result in decreased performance.

To address this issue, the Sequence IIIG engine test was developed to evaluate high temperature deposits. The Sequence IIIG test is an oil thickening and piston deposit test run under high-temperature/high load conditions. This test also provides information about valve train wear. The test simulates high-speed service under relatively high temperature conditions.


http://www.swri.org/4org/D08/GasTests/IIIGtest/default.htm

For GF-4, the minimum weighted deposits allowed was 3.5. For GF-5, they now want a minimum of 4.0, which is a substantial increase.

Does anyone want to guess what Mobil 1 scored in this test?


Evidently, Mobil 1 can barely meet the sequence IVA wear test, so once they get that sorted out, then I'll care how they do in other tests.

 

[Trajan]

Don't have to guess. Read your post at Noria.

 

[tig1]

Since M1 5-30 is the oil of choice for the Honda HTO-06 high temp low deposit spec, and Corvette 4718 spec, my guess it would fair quite well.

 

[JAG]

I saw this thread yesterday and see that one of buster's posts was deleted. It contained the piston demerit rating rating for some oil. Why was that deleted?

 

[rclint]

I'm trying to think of a test where minimum could be used in combination with deposits.. 3.5 minimum has me stumped as well. I assume they are weighing the piston maybe a 3.5 minimum increase in weight ? (read the article and they are weighing the piston so the minimum could be a minimum increase in weight)

buster let us know how Mobil 1 performed.. I'm thinking they fall right at the 4.0 range, and it will look suspiciously like the seq IIIG has been raised/manipulated so mobil 1 an pass the test.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: rclint
I'm trying to think of a test where minimum could be used in combination with deposits.. 3.5 minimum has me stumped as well. I assume they are weighing the piston maybe a 3.5 minimum increase in weight ? (read the article and they are weighing the piston so the minimum could be a minimum increase in weight)

buster let us know how Mobil 1 performed.. I'm thinking they fall right at the 4.0 range, and it will look suspiciously like the seq IIIG has been raised/manipulated so mobil 1 an pass the test.


HaHaHa! The great manipulators of oil test. I since another M1 bash coming. Just kidding.

 

[rclint]

poor poor tig1 by tomorrow you will have to be on 24 hours to keep all these mobil 1 post at bay !! If they did raise the level to 4.0 and mobil 1 breaks in at 3.8-3.9 you can bet your mobil 1 engines that people will be ready to pounce.. I myself would have to question why they would raise the limit instead of lowering it, then see mobil 1 come it at the ragged edge..

 

[modularv8]

Yes it looks like buster's and my response to buster was deleted. Strange....

The way it works is the piston is rated on a merit system. Where each merit is a measure of the area of the piston covered by deposits versus the area not covered. It is sort ofa ratio but is based on the CRC #20 manual of measurements for this test. The merit system could be viewed as a % of the piston covered in deposits. The scale is from 0 to 10, where 10 is a perfectly clean piston (brand new).

deleted threads:
buster said the value was 5.5 merits for Mobil 1. I responded by asking how he knew it was 5.5 and I believe he said it was what someone told him (SWRI). I said to him that 5.5 merits is minimum to meet the GM4718 spec and that most synthetics exceed 5.5 merits in this test. I also posted a similar thread about the Seq IIIG test and Pennzoil Ultra and other Synthetics (GM4718 spec)

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1935621

 

[Gene K]

A higher number = less deposits. Ive looked but I cant find the formula for figuring the IIIG WPD Merit Number.

Originally a 5.0 minimum was proposed for GF5 but it was dumbed down allegedly due to difficulty meeting fuel economy and cam wear numbers with conventional base stocks at that level.

Edit: I see modularv8 has come to the rescue for the blind leading the blind (aka yours truly).

 

[modularv8]

If you run an oil with the GM4718 spec, you can be sure it will exceed the 5.5 merits for WPD and also 90% viscosity increase vs 150%.

"In order to meet the minimum standard for GF-4 or SM, a test oil composition must have an ASTM Sequence IIIG viscosity increase of 150% or less, and weighted piston deposits (“WPD”) of 3.5 or greater. The Sequence IIIG test performance requirements are about 50% more stringent than the previous ASTM Sequence IIIF test. However, certain Original Equipment Manufacturers (“OEMs”) have demanded even higher performance levels for their specific families of engines. For example, the General Motors GM4718M specification requires an ASTM Sequence IIIG viscosity increase of 90% or less and WPD of 5.5 or greater."

 

[buster]

I had it removed because I was not sure if what I was told was referring to the actual M1 figure, or whether it was in that range due to the GM 4718M spec as modular mentioned. I don't want to be spreading false info.

I know in the TEOST test, Mobil 1 scored a 5.3 mg. Maximum allowed is 35mg for GF-4. Castrol Syntec scored a 26 mg. This info came from OilGuy who used to post here a few years ago.

http://www.gf-5.com/the_story/testing/

Syntec 26 mg
Mobil 1 5.3 mg.

Maximum allowed for GF-4 = 35 mg.

See page 11

http://www.renewablelube.com/pdf/080617 STLE Cleveland Bio-Syn Engine Oils.pdf

Leading synthetic is Mobil 1 compared to RLI oils.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: rclint
poor poor tig1 by tomorrow you will have to be on 24 hours to keep all these mobil 1 post at bay !! If they did raise the level to 4.0 and mobil 1 breaks in at 3.8-3.9 you can bet your mobil 1 engines that people will be ready to pounce.. I myself would have to question why they would raise the limit instead of lowering it, then see mobil 1 come it at the ragged edge..


rclint,
I don't think 24 straight hours is possible for a human being on BITOG. It would drive a man bannans.

 

[rclint]

ahh I give you that tig1 especially with all the mobil threads going on both sides of the fence,....