Mobil 1 fans?

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IMO, Amsoil sacrificed its credibility when it started using totally inappropriate test procedures to "prove" that its oil was better. Mobil says that "nothing protects better than Mobil 1". OK. That's expected marketing talk, doesn't mention Amsoil specifically, and is a claim that is probably supportable using a judicious selection of *relavant* tests.

So what does Amsoil do? They pull out totally irrelevant test procedures, like the four-ball wear test, intended for *gear oil*, to "prove" that they are better, specifially, than Mobil 1. Were they unable to come up with relevant test, for *engine* oils, to make their point?

Their multi-tier "Amway" marketing structure, and the resulting plethora of really tacky, poorly though out marketing deceptions doesn't help.

Now, *maybe* Amsoil is a decent oil. But a decent oil has to do a heck of a lot more than protect the engine, these days. It also has to protect the catalytic converter, and the O2 sensor, among other things. And the Amsoil folks are oddly silent on those issues. They seem to prey upon people's tunnel-vision regarding how their oil might protect this or that particular part of the engine. Or in the case of "four-ball wear", parts which would have been protected if they *were* in your engine, which they aren't.

I give Amsoil the pass because their marking pegs them as a shady company run by people I don't trust. (A step above SynLube, though.) Even if their oil were better, which I rather doubt (except perhaps along very specific vectors), I would not be inclined to reward them with money.

BTW, I despise Exxon-Mobil, for different reasons. But I suspect that their M1 products are, on the balance, better than anything Amsoil is hawking, when all factors are considered.

-Steve
 
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Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
...you mean we've run out of ways to say the big bad companies are foisting inferior products on us?
happy2.gif



Where have I ever stated that?

It wasn't a dig at you. I was just poking fun at the tone these threads tend to take.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: NismoMax80


Are there reports of engines failing due to any of these top oils?


Reports? Heck yeah. I remember reading Subaru forums where people complained about their engines dying on road courses due to Mobil 1. In each case the story was something like this:

1. Mobil 1 in the sump, no baffles in the oil pan, no oil pressure or temperature indicators, lots of high-speed cornering.
2. Bottom end fails.
3. Get engine rebuilt, add baffled oil pan and other mods and/or stop driving the car through long high-speed corners... and switch to a different oil.
4. No more bottom end failure!
5. Whenever someone says the problem was oil starvation during high speed cornering rather than the type of oil used, and that the real fix was the baffled oil pan and/or the driving style change, plug ears and chant "la la la" repeatedly.
6. Blame Mobil 1 -- because, hey, it didn't fail after they switched oils, right?

Does that count?
lol.gif


I get what you're saying but there is a flaw in the logic.
"stop driving the car through long high-speed corners"

to prove it was M1 wouldn't they need to continue treating the rebuilt engine exactly the same and then not have problems? I mean if it was due to M1 then it was, not defending it. Just that to me there are more variables involved. How many hard driven miles with Mobil 1. Was is only M1 uses that suffered this? Were they diligent in checking the levels? Were their OCIs decent? Anyone continue the same driving and surpass the miles with something else?
or was that sarcasm? lol
 
Definitely sarcasm.
wink.gif


It's blatantly obvious in most of those cases that the problem was oil starvation, not type of oil used. If you race a car and its oil system isn't up to the job, you're going to break something whether you have Cam2 or 300V in the sump. Yet people blamed the oil because somehow that was the thing to do.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Definitely sarcasm.
wink.gif


It's blatantly obvious in most of those cases that the problem was oil starvation, not type of oil used. If you race a car and its oil system isn't up to the job, you're going to break something whether you have Cam2 or 300V in the sump. Yet people blamed the oil because somehow that was the thing to do.

gotcha
as i was finishing my rebuttal, the level of sarcasm dawned on me haha.
just had fun looking around about the PU causing a buzz. quite entertaining.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Definitely sarcasm.
wink.gif


It's blatantly obvious in most of those cases that the problem was oil starvation, not type of oil used. If you race a car and its oil system isn't up to the job, you're going to break something whether you have Cam2 or 300V in the sump. Yet people blamed the oil because somehow that was the thing to do.


Agree. Oil does not fix engineering problems. It can mask some though... (ie don't put in a oil cooler in a engine so it runs too hot and then spec syn oil because it can handle the hotter temps)

Bill
 
Originally Posted By: sbergman27
It also has to protect the catalytic converter, and the O2 sensor, among other things. And the Amsoil folks are oddly silent on those issues.


Most of your post is rehashed, x-repeated, non-backed up stuff, but this one is new on me. Please expound a bit. What is the allegation here?
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Most of your post is rehashed, x-repeated, non-backed up stuff, but this one is new on me. Please expound a bit. What is the allegation here?

Hello, Amsoil Dealer Site Sponsor. Nice to meet you. What I've said is easily verified by looking at the claims plastered all over the amsoil.com site and then doing even the most basic research into what, for example, the four-ball wear test is for. You imply in your post that these things have hashed out in amsoil's favor in the past, and that is not what I've observed at all. Amsoil's marketing claims often simply do not bear up to more than very casual inspection.

Regarding catalytic converter, etc. I would ask you "where is your API SM certification?". I don't mean weasel-phrases like "recommended for use in", "excellent for use in", etc. which mean absolutely nothing. I want to see where Amsoil products are really and truly certified for API SM and any of the other impressive list of "recommended for use in" specs on the site. For example, Amsoil lists Signature 0w30 as being "recommended for use in" GM 4718M applications. But GM sure doesn't know anything about that:

GM Approved Oils list

In fact, Amsoil is not on their list of approved oils for *any* of their cars. I wonder why?

For one thing, Amsoil's products have a phosphorus and zinc level problem.

-Steve
 
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While you're on the topic of "doing even the most basic research," you might want to do some yourself. Everything you said in your post has been addressed.

...unless your definition of "addressed" involves Amsoil bending over and agreeing that you're right and they're wrong. In which case, I promise you're barking up the wrong tree.

Amsoil is well known as a company that does not pay for third party approvals for most of its products. Some people care, others don't. Either way, they have a good reputation and a solid fan base, and you're not going to break any of it by saying you don't like how they roll.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Everything you said in your post has been addressed.

For suitably lame definitions of "addressed", I suppose. "We only believe in making the best oil possible!", "We don't believe in submitting our oils to industry standard test procedures!". "Big bad API members are conspiring against us!"

If that's where we're setting the bar, then I'd have to say that SynLube has "addressed" all its issues, as well.

Quote:
Amsoil is well known as a company that does not pay for third party approvals for most of its products. Some people care, others don't.

The slickest thing about Amsoil is its marketing. I'm well aware of their reputation among their fan-base.

Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda... the list goes on... who warranty unimaginable numbers of cars, don't seem to be members of that fan base, or even acknowledge Amsoil at all? Is there a single auto maker anywhere that does?

-Steve
 
Originally Posted By: sbergman27
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Everything you said in your post has been addressed.

For suitably lame definitions of "addressed", I suppose. "We only believe in making the best oil possible!", "We don't believe in submitting our oils to industry standard test procedures!". "Big bad API members are conspiring against us!"

If that's where we're setting the bar, then I'd have to say that SynLube has "addressed" all its issues, as well.

Quote:
Amsoil is well known as a company that does not pay for third party approvals for most of its products. Some people care, others don't.

The slickest thing about Amsoil is its marketing. I'm well aware of their reputation among their fan-base.

Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda... the list goes on... who warranty unimaginable numbers of cars, don't seem to be members of that fan base, or even acknowledge Amsoil at all? Is there a single auto maker anywhere that does?

-Steve


You can say the same for Red Line and Schaeffer. Are they bad oils too?
 
[/quote]

You can say the same for Red Line and Schaeffer. Are they bad oils too? [/quote]

These and other "boutique" motor oils.......do these companies refine their own oils ?
 
Originally Posted By: nitehawk55





You can say the same for Red Line and Schaeffer. Are they bad oils too? [/quote]

These and other "boutique" motor oils.......do these companies refine their own oils ? [/quote]

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Amsoil is a small company with only blending facilities, they don't have refineries to produce synthetic base stock oils.. Who do they buy these pao base stock oils from???

Their major supplier of PAO base stock is Exxon/Mobil, the largest producer of synthetic oils in the world. They purchase some Group III base stocks from Shell, Petro Canada, and others. About 90% of their additive packages come from Lubrizoil.
 
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Thanks for that info endeavor and thanks for your service in the military .

My youngest son , a medic , is with a Recce platoon with the CDN military in Afghanistan right now . His tour ends in mid May . I'll be glad when he's home .
 
Originally Posted By: sbergman27
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Most of your post is rehashed, x-repeated, non-backed up stuff, but this one is new on me. Please expound a bit. What is the allegation here?

Hello, Amsoil Dealer Site Sponsor. Nice to meet you. What I've said is easily verified by looking at the claims plastered all over the amsoil.com site and then doing even the most basic research into what, for example, the four-ball wear test is for. You imply in your post that these things have hashed out in amsoil's favor in the past, and that is not what I've observed at all. Amsoil's marketing claims often simply do not bear up to more than very casual inspection.

Regarding catalytic converter, etc. I would ask you "where is your API SM certification?". I don't mean weasel-phrases like "recommended for use in", "excellent for use in", etc. which mean absolutely nothing. I want to see where Amsoil products are really and truly certified for API SM and any of the other impressive list of "recommended for use in" specs on the site. For example, Amsoil lists Signature 0w30 as being "recommended for use in" GM 4718M applications. But GM sure doesn't know anything about that:

GM Approved Oils list

In fact, Amsoil is not on their list of approved oils for *any* of their cars. I wonder why?

For one thing, Amsoil's products have a phosphorus and zinc level problem.

-Steve


Good to meet you too!

Pretty much you have a lot of incorrect information. I know you sound like a guy who only wants to believe what you WANT to believe but here's some info, from my perspective.

Not sure what you mean by "claims plastered all over the amsoil.com", but I will state that the 4 ball test can be used for simple tests on motor oil, and motor oil additives. I agree that it's not super repeatable, and it seems a bit hokey. But what else do you mean by your statements initially? A challenge or do you have any real truths? My statement to you is simple, Amsoil has stood the test of time. And they aren't going anywhere. I have read all your type of comments over the many years I have been here, and frankly they just don't hold water.

You asked for Amsoil's API SM cert:

http://eolcs.api.org/DisplayLicenseInfo.asp?LicenseNo=0995

Amsoil API License #0995

Or here: http://eolcs.api.org/ and plug in Amsoil

Not all Amsoil's motor oils are API certified, in fact most aren't - by Amsoil's choice, not due to phosphorus or zinc levels. Just study the specifications and the look at UOA's and VOA's.

As for the GM specification. Amsoil can easily obtain the document, test at levels 2X, 3X and beyond the GM spec, plus go to OCI's that make most people here very nervous, and with great confidence recommend usage of that product in the said vehicle requiring the spec. It's just not that difficult for a company with the resources.

In the end, you made a statement:

Quote:
But a decent oil has to do a heck of a lot more than protect the engine, these days. It also has to protect the catalytic converter, and the O2 sensor, among other things. And the Amsoil folks are oddly silent on those issues


Which you can't justify in the least. And I needed to refute it, that's all.

Thanks,

Paul
 
Originally Posted By: nitehawk55
Thanks for that info endeavor and thanks for your service in the military .

My youngest son , a medic , is with a Recce platoon with the CDN military in Afghanistan right now . His tour ends in mid May . I'll be glad when he's home .


OT

Thank your son for his service. My boy came back from Bagram in August he did three deployments there with the Navy. God Bless all our Troops!
 
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