Mobil 1 "fails" Seq. IVA wear test.

[addyguy]

Oh, I'm sure they just win thousands of previously-denied warranty repairs for people...and, now that the govt. is 'guaranteeing' warranties, we have a govt.-fuded organization to fight against itself!

Yup, lots of 'govt.-backed' warranties are going to get honoured!

Oh, this is going to get fun!

 

[StevieC]

I give up... Everyone can think and do as they will I'm tired of trying to convince everyone otherwise...

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
I give up... Everyone can think and do as they will I'm tired of trying to convince everyone otherwise...



All I want to know is will a dealer honor a warranty on a bad engine if the OCI has gone to 25,000 miles?

 

[pickled]

Originally Posted By: StevieC

I honestly think that if M1 came out and said use it for 15K miles in normal operating conditions and 7500K in severe, and would let anyone (other than known sludgers) hold them to this test of time, that it would go a great deal with consumers in believing that M1 is one tough product that can't be beat for the price and would truly prove "World leading synthetic oil" to be 100% true ?!?

I here you! I think if Mobil pulled this off- without cheezing off their factory fill buddies they would be able to market with confidence and reap rewards.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: StevieC
I give up... Everyone can think and do as they will I'm tired of trying to convince everyone otherwise...



All I want to know is will a dealer honor a warranty on a bad engine if the OCI has gone to 25,000 miles?


YES, so long as it wasn't because the oil went 25K miles and was the cause of the problem.

If the engine failed for some other reason like a manufacturer defect or poor workmanship etc. and they couldn't prove it was the oils fault then they would have to cover the engine.

 

[StevieC]

If M1 would come out with a clear cut policy like Amsoil that talks about them guaranteeing the oil for use up to a certain mileage based on driving conditions (severe/normal) and warrantied as such I think many people would be more confident in their products and forget about the GRP-III [censored].

It's the whole "Change as per your OEM while under the warranty" [censored] that bothers me... If they have confidence in their product and it is truly good for 15K miles why do this?

Sounds like leagle weaseling to me!

 

[tig1]

Never mind M1 or Amsoil. Will any auto Co. honor your Warranty if you go 25,000 miles on an oil change and your engine blows?

 

[buster]

Mobil 1 was originally good for 25,000/1year. They later backed off this claim as everyone knows.

Their GF-3 oils had a 12 Tbn and a lot of Ca. They were clearly long drain oils and held up as good or better than Amsoil ASL/ATM IMO.

Amsoil a few years ago had oxidation issues with their oils and was using what appeared to be old chemistry. For example, when Mobil started using over based Ca and Boron, Amsoil was still using Mg, which is hardly found anymore in any modern oil. Once GF-4 came around, Amsoil ASL/ATM looked identical on paper to M1. (base oils excluded). Don't be fooled in thinking Amsoil doesn't cut costs. Amatuzio has admitted to playing hardball with additive suppliers.

Mobil has just butchered their lineup and now offer too many different oils. I would have rather them just make 1 Mobil 1 that is good for 15k/1yr when out of warranty. Two M1's says they cut costs somewhere.

Not all Amsoil's oils are better than Mobil 1 too. SSO/ASM are but some of the others like AFL/AFO etc. are nothing to brag about IMO.

SSO is their top of the line oil and is most likely using additives that are about a year or so away from being found in OTC oils.

 

[tig1]

Buster,
I don't have a problem with what you are saying, I just want to know will the auto co. honor your warranty if you go 25,000 mile OCI and the engine blows?

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Never mind M1 or Amsoil. Will any auto Co. honor your Warranty if you go 25,000 miles on an oil change and your engine blows?
As long as it wasn't the oil that caused it, the answer is YES. Doesn't matter the oil!

 

[Jax_RX8]

Originally Posted By: buster

Mobil has just butchered their lineup and now offer too many different oils. I would have rather them just make 1 Mobil 1 that is good for 15k/1yr when out of warranty. Two M1's says they cut costs somewhere.


Agreed!!!

Not only have they butchered their line-up with way too many choices, but the quality does seems to vary with a few standing above the rest (0W40 and 5W40 TDT come to mind).

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: buster
Mobil 1 was originally good for 25,000/1year. They later backed off this claim as everyone knows.

Their GF-3 oils had a 12 Tbn and a lot of Ca. They were clearly long drain oils and held up as good or better than Amsoil ASL/ATM IMO.

Amsoil a few years ago had oxidation issues with their oils and was using what appeared to be old chemistry. For example, when Mobil started using over based Ca and Boron, Amsoil was still using Mg, which is hardly found anymore in any modern oil. Once GF-4 came around, Amsoil ASL/ATM looked identical on paper to M1. (base oils excluded). Don't be fooled in thinking Amsoil doesn't cut costs. Amatuzio has admitted to playing hardball with additive suppliers.

Mobil has just butchered their lineup and now offer too many different oils. I would have rather them just make 1 Mobil 1 that is good for 15k/1yr when out of warranty. Two M1's says they cut costs somewhere.

Not all Amsoil's oils are better than Mobil 1 too. SSO/ASM are but some of the others like AFL/AFO etc. are nothing to brag about IMO.

SSO is their top of the line oil and is most likely using additives that are about a year or so away from being found in OTC oils.


Every oil company has it's woes and Amsoil is no exception. But this is a company that has always guaranteed their oils for the mileage on the bottle as printed without trying to get out of it with fancy wording.

I could care less whats in a an oil in terms of base-stock or additives. I just care how well the real world performance is and if the company stands behind their products in the event that they need to pay out.

And to me M1 doesn't seem to be confident enough in their product as Amsoil is in backing it up by a Mileage guarantee. That's all I'm saying.

I never said one product was better than the other and I have always said M1 is a darn good product and I have used it in the past with great results.

When everyone else catches up to SSO, then SSO will reformulate as they do with all their oils to become the very best if not better than everyone else as they are always striving to be and can afford to because they aren't spending ridiculous sums of money on some IMO, stupid API certification that doesn't mean much anyways when a company is willing to back their product with a mileage guarantee and pays out if it doesn't work or causes a failure.

So again I raise the question... What is the problem?

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: tig1
Never mind M1 or Amsoil. Will any auto Co. honor your Warranty if you go 25,000 miles on an oil change and your engine blows?
As long as it wasn't the oil that caused it, the answer is YES. Doesn't matter the oil!


I just called my local Ford dealer and the service mgr. told me if you went 15-20or 25,000 miles on an OC under warranty, and the co required 7,500 as Ford now does, Ford will not honor your warranty. He said the first thing Ford wants are the oil receipts and mileage records if the engine fails for any reason, I repeat any reason.

 

[StevieC]

That's what I was talking about above... A scare tactic and they can't legally deny you your warranty unless they prove that the engine failed because of lack of lubrication due to an overused oil or because the oil wasn't capable of doing it's job and it caused the engine to fail.

Tell them to read the M.M. act.

If the engine fails for any other reason other than lubrication they can't ask and don't need oil receipts!

They are just trying not to pay out using oil changing as an excuse.

If you were to get a UOA on that oil and it came back with a good TBN & TAN that said it was good for continued used they couldn't deny your warranty. Ask Terry Dyson who has helped people win a case using one of his analysis and the judge ordered Honda to pay for an engine!

I'm not making this stuff up...

 

[tig1]

Again Amsoil is a very good oil. You seem to want to prove it's better than M1, and may be in some techanical respect, but Amsoil is making a mistake telling customers to ignor their warranty.

 

[StevieC]

tig1, I'm not trying to say Amsoil is better than M1, as stated above... I think they are both darn good oils... I'm just saying that M1 should provide the same claim and stand behind their products as Amsoil does if they truly believe it's good for the full 15K miles. That's all.

I have used both oil and like both and I was just talking about consumer confidence in general could be raised if they would do the same as Amsoil.

Amsoil is not telling their customers to "Ignore" their warranty, but to have the confidence that they can go extended drains using their guarantee and because the M.M. act prohibits the denial of warranty because of the use of a specific oil/OCI.

That is all.

FWIW: I was very happy with M1 when I used it, and I use Amsoil now because I get better performance in my application in cold weather than M1, but that's my application and doesn't mean that I think it is any better than M1 in general for everyone, just in my fussy engine Amsoil works better so I keep using it.

In my next engine I would probably use Amsoil/Mobil-1 again depending on the performance in my engine with that new vehicle.

Trust me I don't want to spend anymore than I need to, but will if I get performance and real world value in return.

 

[buster]

Amsoil's business model is obviously working.

 

[pickled]

I just have a feeling that we are going to see a major change in M1 formulations as we approach GF-5. The overall confusing fragmentation of products coupled with the testing done at SWRI (the original thread topic) should be irking a few people that are accountable for the brand. Mobil now has more line extensions of M1 synthetic than Ocean Spray has for cranberry juice. Streamlining would seem to make sense at some point.

 

[buster]

Great points. It would be wise for them to do that but I doubt they will. I'm sure they are losing market share, slowly.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: buster
Great points. It would be wise for them to do that but I doubt they will. I'm sure they are losing market share, slowly.


This IMO, is what happens to a public company like XOM when they get too big.

They are too concerned with profits to realize that they are loosing market share by not listening to their customers needs/wants!

Make a darn good oil that exceeds all requirements and holds up for many miles. Back it with a mileage warranty similar to Amsoil and sell it as cheap as possible to the public so the choice is logically clear to use it over others and wipe out the market with your XOM company size.