Mobil 1 5W-30 EP 20,979 miles 2004 Sequoia

[mibro]

2004 Toyota Sequoia 4.7L V8 2UZ-FE 111,981 miles.
20,979 miles OCI.
Mobil 1 5W-30 EP.
Donaldson P169071 oil filter with external filter magnet.
New Toyota air filter installed at 92,133 miles.

After my last OCI of 15,708 miles, decided to push this one a little further.

Oil in service for 13 months of local New England driving - mostly short trips of 5 to 20 miles plus some road trips and infrequent towing of 3,500 to 4,500 lbs trailer.

2-1/4 quarts of oil added in 20,979 miles. 1 quart added after 5,307 miles. 3/4 quart added after 14,947 miles. 1/2 quart added after 18,929 miles. Original fill was intentionally low to allow later oil addition to refresh the additive pack, so oil usage over OCI was actually about 1-1/4 quarts.

Filter cut open. Nothing visible in filter pleats, can clean and small pinch of dust-like ferrous particles visible at magnet location.

Aluminum 4
Chromium 0
Iron 16
Copper 3
Lead 1
Tin 0
Molybdenum 87
Nickel 0
Manganese 0
Silver 0
Titanium 0
Potassium 4
Boron 58
Silicon 17
Sodium 17
Calcium 2210
Magnesium 11
Phosphorus 599
Zinc 718
Barium 0

SUS Viscosity at 210F 64.1
cSt Viscosity @ 100C 11.36
Flashpoint in F 390
Fuel % Antifreeze % 0.0
Water 0.0
Insolubules % 0.4
TBN 3.3

Blackstone Comments:
You ran this oil fill out to 20,979 miles in your Sequoia, and the engine barely even noticed! Iron tracks with oil use, so the 16-ppm found in this sample is a normal level and not a cause for concern. The viscosity was a bit high for a 5W/30 oil, but with wear at these good levels, we can’t complain. No coolant or fuel was found in the oil. The TBN at 3.3 shows some active additive remaining for a longer run. Try 22,000 miles on the next fill and then send in another sample to monitor wear. You have a great-wearing Toyota engine at 111,981 miles.

 

[addyguy]

Perfect - just perfect.

Good job.

 

[Steve S]

Wonderful uoa.

 

[bullwinkle]

Wow-Fe only 16 ppm after over 20K?? So much for Mobil 1 causing excessive iron! What filter magnet are you using?

 

[mibro]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Wow-Fe only 16 ppm after over 20K?? So much for Mobil 1 causing excessive iron! What filter magnet are you using?


I have some large rare earth arc segment magnets that I bought on eBay years ago, about 1-1/4" x 1-1/2". I looked for a long time to find arc segment (i.e. curved) magnets that had about the same radius as an oil filter. I think any external magnet will have the same effect, however, providing it has a strong enough field.

There's an interesting theory concerning failure of oil-lubricated machinery called "cascade failure." This says that wear progresses in a progressive fashion as each iron or steel particle causes more wear on each pass through the equipment. The solution to this is magnetic filtration, which removes the wear-causing particles from the lubricating oil thus preventing the wear cascade from getting started. Wear particles of non-magnetic metals (aluminum, copper) are not really a problem as they are much softer than iron or steel particles.

Anyway, I'm a believer in magnetic filtration.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Wow-Fe only 16 ppm after over 20K?? So much for Mobil 1 causing excessive iron! What filter magnet are you using?


The iron thing is way over played by the bashers here. I have a friend that is doing 15K with the M1 5-30EP in his 03 Windstar with very good results. We also cut opened the filter(M1 oil filter.)and it looked very clean. At 130K the engine is clean through the oil fill hole.

 

[mibro]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Perfect - just perfect.


The question is, what next? The UOAs I have done so far appear to show wear rates going down with more miles on the oil. So, should I try 25,000 miles? 30,000 miles? I don't know.

The oil viscosity was slightly high here - 64.1 vs. an acceptable range of 56 to 63. I'm not really sure how significant this is.

One thing that does seem clear - judging from the condition of the filter media, the Donaldson filter is capable of going much longer than 20,000 miles.

 

[FZ1]

Quite good. Nice motor. Different strokes. I'd start with the oil at the full mark and add as needed. 18-20k is far enough. I would change it 1x a year every Fall. Change the AF Before you change the oil. That's what I do,so it must be right.

 

[GenSan]

Originally Posted By: mibro
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Perfect - just perfect.


The question is, what next?


I don't know who deserves more credit the engine, the oil, the magnet, or you for being brave enought to run it for so long.

But thank you!

I would suggest running a different extended drain oil say Amsoil SSO, Edge, or Ultra with the same Donaldson filter and magnets to have some comparables.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: GenSan

I would suggest running a different extended drain oil say Amsoil SSO, Edge, or Ultra with the same Donaldson filter and magnets to have some comparables.


He'd have to do 2 runs with each oil to get a good comparison, and that would take 40,000 + miles to accomplish. I'd stick with what is working and continue using the same oil, filter, and magnet combo. Maybe stretch it out a bit more, just to see how far he can go. Honestly I don't think the OP is going to do any better. JMO

 

[mibro]

Originally Posted By: GenSan
I don't know who deserves more credit the engine, the oil, the magnet, or you for being brave enought to run it for so long.


It's mostly the engine, imo. Toyota is an engineer's company, with an engineer's focus. The engine component materials, tolerances, surface and heat treatments are just better, I think. The 2UZ-FE is a fantastic engine.

On the OCI, I'm firmly in the camp that short OCIs are just marketing b-s. 20,000 miles doesn't feel like a stretch to me. European vehicles run 19,000 mile (30,000 km) OCIs routinely. Now 30,000 miles - that does seem like a long OCI - but I'm thinking about it.

OTOH, changing the oil once a year at 20,000 miles is hardly an inconvenience.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: mibro
Originally Posted By: GenSan
I don't know who deserves more credit the engine, the oil, the magnet, or you for being brave enought to run it for so long.


It's mostly the engine, imo. Toyota is an engineer's company, with an engineer's focus. The engine component materials, tolerances, surface and heat treatments are just better, I think. The 2UZ-FE is a fantastic engine.

On the OCI, I'm firmly in the camp that short OCIs are just marketing b-s. 20,000 miles doesn't feel like a stretch to me. European vehicles run 19,000 mile (30,000 km) OCIs routinely. Now 30,000 miles - that does seem like a long OCI - but I'm thinking about it.

OTOH, changing the oil once a year at 20,000 miles is hardly an inconvenience.


Not such engineering to prevent having sludger engines, as many of the Toyota's were. From my history with M1 EP it is an outstanding oil good for long extended OCIs. However you might want to try Castrol or Valvoline synt to see. It would be interesting to see how they hold up after 20K.

A XM tech did tell me they tested the EP oils for much longer than 20K and they still held up well but they did 15K oil filter changes. As I already said my friend is doing 15k OCIs with very good results in a Ford V6.

 

[nomochevys]

My Dad uses the same oil on his 4.7 03 4runner and changes it every 10 or 12K which is about once a year for him. He uses the Toyota oil filter though. I thought he was going way too long but maybe not. We have not sent off a sample to see.

I seem to remember that the 4.7 toyota engine and mobile one worked well together? This engine is buttery smooth but eats gas. It does not make big power numbers but has great torque on the lower end to pull the big 4 runner.

I am just starting to try to learn about oil analysis so I know nothing. A lot of the information is confusion to me. I feel like I need a degree in chemistry of something to understand some of this. I am amazed that you experts think this oil change interval is good considering the miles. Its amazing you can go that far these days.

 

[mibro]

Originally Posted By: nomochevys
My Dad uses the same oil on his 4.7 03 4runner and changes it every 10 or 12K which is about once a year for him. He uses the Toyota oil filter though. I thought he was going way too long but maybe not. We have not sent off a sample to see.

I seem to remember that the 4.7 toyota engine and mobile one worked well together? This engine is buttery smooth but eats gas. It does not make big power numbers but has great torque on the lower end to pull the big 4 runner.

I am just starting to try to learn about oil analysis so I know nothing. A lot of the information is confusion to me. I feel like I need a degree in chemistry of something to understand some of this. I am amazed that you experts think this oil change interval is good considering the miles. Its amazing you can go that far these days.


I'm a mechanical engineer but not an expert on oil analysis.

At a simplistic level, interpreting the UOA numbers is not that hard, though a real expert will get far more from them than I can.

The numbers for each element (each metal) are in parts per million, so first of all, we're talking about very small amounts of metal.

Iron: tells you how the camshaft(s), valves, cylinders, crankshaft and miscellaneous other steel wear components are doing.
Aluminum: tells you how the pistons are doing.
Copper and tin: tell you how the crankshaft and piston rod bearings are doing.
Chromium: tells you how the piston rings are doing.

The other number to look at is silicon, which is essentially dirt - the material that passes through your air filter into your engine - that tells you how well your air filter is performing.

Most of the other elements are additives that are present in the oil.

A healthy UOA has low iron, aluminum, copper, tin and chromium numbers. Comparing, say a 4 to a 6 for aluminum for example is splitting hairs, as both these numbers represent such low concentrations.

I would say your father is doing fine with 10K to 12K OCIs on an oil that is designed for 15K OCIs. The 4.7 in the 4Runner is not working hard at all. Also, the Toyota OEM filters are pretty good.

As far as my latest 21K OCI goes, I think this oil could go a lot further with regular 1 quart refreshes. It's also crossed my mind to drain the oil, filter it with a centrifugal filter to remove all the suspended material and reinstall the oil, but that would really be more trouble than just installing new oil.

 

[Mokanic]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: mibro
Originally Posted By: GenSan
I don't know who deserves more credit the engine, the oil, the magnet, or you for being brave enought to run it for so long.


It's mostly the engine, imo. Toyota is an engineer's company, with an engineer's focus. The engine component materials, tolerances, surface and heat treatments are just better, I think. The 2UZ-FE is a fantastic engine.

On the OCI, I'm firmly in the camp that short OCIs are just marketing b-s. 20,000 miles doesn't feel like a stretch to me. European vehicles run 19,000 mile (30,000 km) OCIs routinely. Now 30,000 miles - that does seem like a long OCI - but I'm thinking about it.

OTOH, changing the oil once a year at 20,000 miles is hardly an inconvenience.


Not such engineering to prevent having sludger engines, as many of the Toyota's were. From my history with M1 EP it is an outstanding oil good for long extended OCIs. However you might want to try Castrol or Valvoline synt to see. It would be interesting to see how they hold up after 20K.

A XM tech did tell me they tested the EP oils for much longer than 20K and they still held up well but they did 15K oil filter changes. As I already said my friend is doing 15k OCIs with very good results in a Ford V6.


Many of the Yodas were not sludgers Tig. Please don't show your ignorance in that matter. The 1UZ and 2UZ engines were as close to perfectly engineered engines as could be offered on a mass-production scale. They will run forever on Wesson cooking oil.
Instead of taking the M1-EP oil out farther, why don't you try a much lower priced oil such as a conventional like Havoline/Chevron, or Shell's Drive clean just to see if it is the engine's engineering or just the oil itself. The EP product is a better oil than their plain 5W30(which is not a hard product to beat)but I bet you could do 20K oci in that motor on Pennzoil Plat. for less money.

 

[Al]

One of the most informative posts I have ever seen on the board. Food for thought on the magnet thing. Thanks.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Mokanic
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: mibro
Originally Posted By: GenSan
I don't know who deserves more credit the engine, the oil, the magnet, or you for being brave enought to run it for so long.


It's mostly the engine, imo. Toyota is an engineer's company, with an engineer's focus. The engine component materials, tolerances, surface and heat treatments are just better, I think. The 2UZ-FE is a fantastic engine.

On the OCI, I'm firmly in the camp that short OCIs are just marketing b-s. 20,000 miles doesn't feel like a stretch to me. European vehicles run 19,000 mile (30,000 km) OCIs routinely. Now 30,000 miles - that does seem like a long OCI - but I'm thinking about it.

OTOH, changing the oil once a year at 20,000 miles is hardly an inconvenience.


Not such engineering to prevent having sludger engines, as many of the Toyota's were. From my history with M1 EP it is an outstanding oil good for long extended OCIs. However you might want to try Castrol or Valvoline synt to see. It would be interesting to see how they hold up after 20K.

A XM tech did tell me they tested the EP oils for much longer than 20K and they still held up well but they did 15K oil filter changes. As I already said my friend is doing 15k OCIs with very good results in a Ford V6.


Many of the Yodas were not sludgers Tig. Please don't show your ignorance in that matter. The 1UZ and 2UZ engines were as close to perfectly engineered engines as could be offered on a mass-production scale. They will run forever on Wesson cooking oil.
Instead of taking the M1-EP oil out farther, why don't you try a much lower priced oil such as a conventional like Havoline/Chevron, or Shell's Drive clean just to see if it is the engine's engineering or just the oil itself. The EP product is a better oil than their plain 5W30(which is not a hard product to beat)but I bet you could do 20K oci in that motor on Pennzoil Plat. for less money.


I'm not ignorant about Toyota's. Everyone knows what you said. DUH! Yes,most Toyota engines are great, but some have problems.

 

[k24a4]

Mibro, the use of a magnet is intriguing to me. Do you place yours on the engine block around the filter or on the drain pan, and how big/strong do they need to be for maximum effectiveness?

Also, why the Donaldson filter specifically? Was it the donaldson endurance plus, which, according to the website, puts additive back in the oil?
http://www.donaldson.com/en/engine/lube/lube.html#TopOfPage

 

[mibro]

Originally Posted By: k24a4
Mibro, the use of a magnet is intriguing to me. Do you place yours on the engine block around the filter or on the drain pan, and how big/strong do they need to be for maximum effectiveness?

Also, why the Donaldson filter specifically? Was it the donaldson endurance plus, which, according to the website, puts additive back in the oil?


The magnet goes on the outside of the oil filter. The magnetic field is strong enough to attract ferrous particles to the magnet's location on the inside of the filter. There are commercial magnetic filter products available that attach to the outside of the oil filter, but I just use a large arc segment magnet.

I use a Donaldson filter for the quality of the Syntec media. This provides a level of particle filtration approaching that of a bypass system without the added cost and complexity. It is NOT an Endurance Plus filter. In general I don't believe in oil additives beyond what the oil manufacturer has already put in the oil.

 

[webfors]

Great report!