Mobil-1, 0W40 Oil Analysis Results

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

Here is one I ran across on another board thought it might be interesting to look at....

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'01 MB E430: The analysis was performed by Oil Analysis lab, Inc., Spokane, WA. My driving style involves daily short trips of less than 10 miles to & back from work, weekend highway trips, usually over 100 miles and usually at an average speed of 75MPH. Maximum sustained speed is 95MPH for several miles. Max speed attained is 120MPH, several brief moments since purchased. The Mercedes Flexible Service System (electronic engine service monitoring system) called for first service at just over 13,100 miles. At 13,066 miles I took it in. The oil is Mobil 1 0W40. The analysis is grouped in four categories - Physical Data, Metal Concentrations, Additive Package and Maintenance Recommendations (the actual test data is given at the end of this post). In all but Metal Concentration, everything is normal. Infact, at 13K miles, I think that the oil did pretty well. In Metal Moncentration, Silicon is slightly less than moderate and its contamination is causing abbrasive wear (I'm somewhat concerned about this since silicon is from airborne dirt). Aluminum and copper are moderate and should be monitored. Maintenance Recommendation calls for oil & filter to be changed if not done yet and that the metal concentrations are most likely from engine break-in.

Here's the result data:

A) Physical Data
Viscosity: 11.7 cST @ 100C
Fuel Dilution: 0%
Soot: 0
Oxidation: 0
Nitration: 0
Water: 0%
Anti-freeze: 0%
B) Metal Concentration (parts per million by weight)
Silicon: 78 - requires monitoring
Iron: 50
Chromium: 2
Aluminum: 28 - requires monitoring
Copper: 29 - requires monitoring
Lead: 19
Tin: 0
Nickel: 1
Silver: 0
C) Additive Package (parts per million by weight)
Molybdenum: 1
Magnesium: 709
Sodium: 21
Titanium: 0
Boron: 3
Potassium: 8
Calcium: 1457
Zinc: 1116
Barium: 4
Phosphorus: 1206

 

[Bror Jace]

I'll agree that the anaysis looks pretty good considering the number of miles and the fact that the vehicle was breaking in by that time but ...

... why is someone who sprung for a E430 waiting that long before doing an oil change?

I don't care what the manual says. Shelling out serious cash for that kind of ride and then waiting until 13,000 miles to pass before changing your oil and filter is about as penny wise and pound foolish as a being can get.

 

[Patman]

He simply waited for the light on his FSS to tell him that an oil change was needed which is a bit foolish I agree! I suppose that is ok for later in the car's life, but I would have done at least 3-4 oil changes during that time if it were my car. I always do the first oil change at 500 miles on every new car I have bought, and then I like to do a second one at around 1500 to 2k.

BTW Bror, I've spent the last few days here at work (we're not too busy right now!) going through the old posts on the Edmunds board, and today I've read about 630 messages out of 1500+ in this one oil thread! I've seen a lot of your old posts in there, good stuff! It's amazing, that particular thread (oils a slippery subject part 2) has been going for about 3 years now!

 

[sprintman]

0W-40 Tri Syn or new SuperSyn?? Figures look pretty good for break-in, daily short trips (10 mile), and sustained 120mph. Not many oils will cop that combination for 13,000 miles. It's almost become trendy these days to knock M1, I may have been guilty myself. If these figures are for Supersyn then more than a few of us need to have a seriuos rethink IMHO.

 

[Patman]

The SuperSyn has gotten a pretty bad rap, I seriously hope we can prove it otherwise with some good oil analysis data. It would be nice to know that it can go the distance, since it's the only commonly available true synthetic left on the shelves.

 

[loubapache]

Not all Supersyn's are the same.

The 0W-40 and 15W-50 have to meet some tough Euro car specs (such as Mercedes 229.1 and 229.3) and I think there are excellent oils.

If you compare the specs numbers released by Mobil 1 (pour, flash, etc.) between Tri-Synthetic and Supersyn, you will see that the pour point did not go up and flash did not go down for 0W-40 and 15W-50.

However, for the 5w30 and especially the 10w30, the numbers got much worse in Supersyn. These are the main stream oils that make Mobil $$$.

I bet the oil is Tri-Synthetic unless the guy drives a lot of miles. I believe Supersyn was released in late April so this is about 2 months for 13,000 miles. Not impossible but not likely.

Also the oil has sheered into a 30 weight (11.7 cSt at 100 deg C).

Bo

[ June 11, 2002, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: loubapache ]

 

[DNS]

"The 0W-40 and 15W-50 have to meet some tough Euro car specs (such as Mercedes 229.1 and 229.3) and I think there are excellent oils.

If you compare the specs numbers released by Mobil 1 (pour, flash, etc.) between Tri-Synthetic and Supersyn, you will see that the pour point did not go up and flash did not go down for 0W-40 and 15W-50."

Does anyone have any analysis data for the Mobil 1 15W50 with supersyn?

[ June 11, 2002, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: DNS ]

 

[Lightman]

I have a '99 E class, with the same fss intervals. These are garbage. Mercedes actually sent a letter out to the service depts, saying that they no longer recommend the full fss interval for oil changes, due to so many gummed up engines. They did say the full interval would be possible if using a specific extended drain interval oil like amsoil or Mobil's delvac 1. They had a list of approved extended drain oils..

I think the wear metals are WAY too high on that report, and the owner went way too long on the oil. They obviously also have an air leak of some sort or a seriously dirty filter!!

 

[TooSlick]

Lightman,

The chrome (piston ring) wear is only 2 ppm after 11k miles and iron wear is normal for a new engine.

The silicon in this case is from engine seals and gasket materials and will steadily decrease. If you really had this much abrasive dirt, you would see a dramatic increase in Fe and Cr wear from the rings and cylinder walls.

Glad to see you made it to florida okay

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Lots of new cars have gasket materials which leech silicone into the oil. It should lower with time. Especially since this is the 1st drain. Spectrograph cannot differentiate between silcone and silicon.

And a dirty filter is actually more efficient, thus letting in less dirt(silicon) but unfortunately also less air.

Don't you think it is possible the wear metals could be due to break-in process?

I just don't like that it has thinned to a 30wt. I would not go that long based on that. Or change to a 10w40 syn so that it will hold up better.

 

[dragboat]

Thought the Iron was extremely high,Silicon as well,the seals I believe on Mercedes and BMW are made of Buna-N material and the Chrome rings are reserved for racing engines of certain types,not much of those used anylonger in racing either

Correct me if if I am wrong and in fact Mercedes or BMW uses a chrome piston ring

[ September 19, 2002, 03:54 AM: Message edited by: dragboat ]

 

[MolaKule]

Since my criteria for wear metals is in ppm/1k,
here is what this analysis breaks out to be:

Analysis My criteria for Synthetics
Iron - 3.8 Al - 2.15 Copper - 2.23 Lead - 1.5
For the first oil change and considering the mileage, this is indeed remarkable if it had 13K
on the oil.

 

[Al]

I would also think that changing earlier would have been good for a new car. And since this is the first oil change for a new car, i'm not sure how significient these numbers. I would think that Irons and silicons would be high and also aluminum in the wear in process and remnants from the machining process. It would appear the additive package held up OK.

Something I have wondered: If you take a sample at 5K and the irons (or any wear metal) are say 10. What can you expect iron to be at 10K assuming nothing changes and the additive package holds together. Also assume no makeup. I'm guessing that 20 will not be the correct answer.

This is a pretty simplistic question which probably has non-simplistic answers.

 

[jjbula]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lightman:
I have a '99 E class, with the same fss intervals. These are garbage. Mercedes actually sent a letter out to the service depts, saying that they no longer recommend the full fss interval for oil changes, due to so many gummed up engines. They did say the full interval would be possible if using a specific extended drain interval oil like amsoil or Mobil's delvac 1. They had a list of approved extended drain oils..

---

I saw a TSB on how to clean oil sludge out of NorthStar engines. I think the long intervals with cheap SJ oils was definitely a bad idea.

Or a good idea for the service departments.

 

[TooSlick]

Sprintman,

This is the analysis I was referring to in terms of long drains ....

These are good #'s for a new engine, but I'd like to see some TBN data. I haven't done any analysis testing in this engine, so the shearing may be normal. Mobils own data shows this formulation shears a bit and then thickens back up over the course of a long drain interval.

TS

 

[sprintman]

extended drains of no interest to me (oil analysis not readily available). I've changed my thinking on a lot of oils lately, and may start using dino with Auto-Rx maint dose in one vehicle. Currently Pennzoil/Castrol dino mix in Mazda turbo and Redline in the Outback. RL gear oils will definitely stay but undecided on the eng oil. At A$30 a quart the RL aint cheap. Mobil 1 0W40 SS may get the nod but who knows?

 

[Lightman]

I didn't realize it was a new vehicle. Wear metals are understandably higher for break-in.

I still contend the fss is junk and you should determine your proper interval through analysis.

 

[G-MAN]

I'm just wondering how he can be sure that the factory fill oil was Mobil 1 0w40. Mobil 1 is the factory fill for all AMG Mercedes cars, but the E430 isn't an AMG model.