I have a TA with the B&G/Tremec 6 speed. I've read the recommendation from a rebuilder that the only 2 fluids to use are Sychromesh and Mobil 1. Some claim that mobil 1 is notchy and others claim that sycromesh is sluggish when cold. I'm thinking of mixing the 2 to get the best of both worlds. I don't think it will be an issue but I was advised to post the question here to make sure they will be able to mix.
mixing tranny fluids ?
- Thread starter wannafbody
- Start date
- Status
I wouldn't use the M1 in a manual transmission, mixed or alone.
Mobil One agrees with me and warns against it, as it can eat synchros and is too slick for proper synchro action. Good for wear, though.
Any transmission fluid is thicker when cold, and PS is no better or worse than any other.
Penn Synch is a dino. It is very good, but high HP and loads can shear it down and lose it's additive effectiveness [road racing]. 6 months to 2 years is a range that I would expect for wildly varied conditions.
Amsoil has great synthetic offerings, and Redline MT90 would also be good.
Mobil One agrees with me and warns against it, as it can eat synchros and is too slick for proper synchro action. Good for wear, though.
Any transmission fluid is thicker when cold, and PS is no better or worse than any other.
Penn Synch is a dino. It is very good, but high HP and loads can shear it down and lose it's additive effectiveness [road racing]. 6 months to 2 years is a range that I would expect for wildly varied conditions.
Amsoil has great synthetic offerings, and Redline MT90 would also be good.
Just to make sure we are on the same page I'm referring to Mobil 1 ATF. I've asked about the Amsoil ATF but was warned that it didn't seem to work well from someone who tried it. Now, some of the various responses may just be that no 2 transmissions act alike.
As far as comparing Mobil 1 ATF to a SYNTHETIC Synchromesh transmission fluid I think you will find that they flow similar in the cold, though the Mobil 1 MIGHT folow a bit better because it's slightly less viscous.
But the sychromesh transmission fluid seems to contain more AW and EP additives compared to ATF. These are MUCH needed with a manual transmission. ATF's do not contain the same levels of AW & EP because auto transmissions don't require them, manual transmissions do.
There are also synthetic MTL's on the market with ATF's viscosity that flow as well as synthetic ATF's in the cold temps but protect with the increased AW & EP additives.
Some manufactures do spec ATF in their manual transmissions. I think it's a case of simplifying fluid requirements to save money and effect easy shifting in the cold temps. It'll get you through warranty. After that it's not the manufacture's problem.
Whimsey
But the sychromesh transmission fluid seems to contain more AW and EP additives compared to ATF. These are MUCH needed with a manual transmission. ATF's do not contain the same levels of AW & EP because auto transmissions don't require them, manual transmissions do.
There are also synthetic MTL's on the market with ATF's viscosity that flow as well as synthetic ATF's in the cold temps but protect with the increased AW & EP additives.
Some manufactures do spec ATF in their manual transmissions. I think it's a case of simplifying fluid requirements to save money and effect easy shifting in the cold temps. It'll get you through warranty. After that it's not the manufacture's problem.
Whimsey
Is Pennzoil Synchromesh a synthetic or dino fluid?
Originally Posted By: wannafbody
Is Pennzoil Synchromesh a synthetic or dino fluid?
I THINK Pennzoil Sychromesh is a dino or at best a "synthetic blend" fluid, by today's standards. I don't believe it's considered a "true PAO full synthetic". Their web site should be able to answer your questions better.
Whimsey
Is Pennzoil Synchromesh a synthetic or dino fluid?
I THINK Pennzoil Sychromesh is a dino or at best a "synthetic blend" fluid, by today's standards. I don't believe it's considered a "true PAO full synthetic". Their web site should be able to answer your questions better.
Whimsey
Originally Posted By: Whimsey
Originally Posted By: wannafbody
Is Pennzoil Synchromesh a synthetic or dino fluid?
I THINK Pennzoil Sychromesh is a dino or at best a "synthetic blend" fluid, by today's standards. I don't believe it's considered a "true PAO full synthetic".
This is also what I've heard.
As far as using synthetics in a T56, this has been beaten to death on LS1TECH (up to 75 page threads!!).
The ONLY agreed upon conclusions that were ever reached were that Mobil 1 ATF (contrary to what was stated in an above post), Pennzoil/GM Sychromesh, and regular old Dexron 3 spec mineral based transmission fluid would NOT 'do you wrong'.
This was given we are talking about standard, factory installed, non-rebuilt T56es, in '93-'02 GM f bodies, which have cellulose fiber composite blocker rings.
It ALL goes out the window when we are talking about factory T56es in later year Corvettes, Vipers, and possibly Mustang Cobra SVTs/GT 500s. Also ANY T56 that was rebuilt with carbon fiber blocker rings. People have used Redline D4, Amsoil Synchromesh, Torco MTF/ATF, etc., etc. in these with no problems and much success.
Originally Posted By: wannafbody
Is Pennzoil Synchromesh a synthetic or dino fluid?
I THINK Pennzoil Sychromesh is a dino or at best a "synthetic blend" fluid, by today's standards. I don't believe it's considered a "true PAO full synthetic".
This is also what I've heard.
As far as using synthetics in a T56, this has been beaten to death on LS1TECH (up to 75 page threads!!).
The ONLY agreed upon conclusions that were ever reached were that Mobil 1 ATF (contrary to what was stated in an above post), Pennzoil/GM Sychromesh, and regular old Dexron 3 spec mineral based transmission fluid would NOT 'do you wrong'.
This was given we are talking about standard, factory installed, non-rebuilt T56es, in '93-'02 GM f bodies, which have cellulose fiber composite blocker rings.
It ALL goes out the window when we are talking about factory T56es in later year Corvettes, Vipers, and possibly Mustang Cobra SVTs/GT 500s. Also ANY T56 that was rebuilt with carbon fiber blocker rings. People have used Redline D4, Amsoil Synchromesh, Torco MTF/ATF, etc., etc. in these with no problems and much success.
Ya, I read the stickies at LS1tech. My T56 was rebuilt by the dealership in 01 but I have no clue if I got the carbon fiber blocker rings.
Pennzoil Synchromesh is a dino.
I was referring to synthetic M1 gear oil.
M1 synthetic ATF is longer lasting than dino, but is NOT designed for manual transmissions. It has been deemed acceptable and will work OK.
Go with a dedicated gear oil - there are wonderful options nowadays.
I was referring to synthetic M1 gear oil.
M1 synthetic ATF is longer lasting than dino, but is NOT designed for manual transmissions. It has been deemed acceptable and will work OK.
Go with a dedicated gear oil - there are wonderful options nowadays.
What about RP Synchromax? It is a synthetic MTL designed for transmissions that spec ATF. Supposedly has bette AW and EP adds than ATF.
Originally Posted By: wannafbody
Ya, I read the stickies at LS1tech. My T56 was rebuilt by the dealership in 01 but I have no clue if I got the carbon fiber blocker rings.
According to Amber at Six Speeds, Inc. every NEW replacement, COMPLETE T56 bought from the dealers has the carbon fiber blockers. Also she said that the cellulose composite blockers are still available, but they would have had to actually request these, otherwise they would have been sent the c.f. blockers for a rebuild. Maybe call/go there and ask the dealer/tech, they should know.
Ya, I read the stickies at LS1tech. My T56 was rebuilt by the dealership in 01 but I have no clue if I got the carbon fiber blocker rings.
According to Amber at Six Speeds, Inc. every NEW replacement, COMPLETE T56 bought from the dealers has the carbon fiber blockers. Also she said that the cellulose composite blockers are still available, but they would have had to actually request these, otherwise they would have been sent the c.f. blockers for a rebuild. Maybe call/go there and ask the dealer/tech, they should know.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Pennzoil Synchromesh is a dino.
I was referring to synthetic M1 gear oil.
M1 synthetic ATF is longer lasting than dino, but is NOT designed for manual transmissions. It has been deemed acceptable and will work OK.
Go with a dedicated gear oil - there are wonderful options nowadays.
Call up Tremec (or ANYONE/EVERYONE else who deals with T56es) and ask if you can use a gear oil (dino OR synthetic) in these gearboxes.
Unless it was rebuilt faceplated for RACING ONLY most will not even think of using Red Line MTL, let alone anything thicker.
Pennzoil Synchromesh is a dino.
I was referring to synthetic M1 gear oil.
M1 synthetic ATF is longer lasting than dino, but is NOT designed for manual transmissions. It has been deemed acceptable and will work OK.
Go with a dedicated gear oil - there are wonderful options nowadays.
Call up Tremec (or ANYONE/EVERYONE else who deals with T56es) and ask if you can use a gear oil (dino OR synthetic) in these gearboxes.
Unless it was rebuilt faceplated for RACING ONLY most will not even think of using Red Line MTL, let alone anything thicker.
Originally Posted By: Tremo
What about RP Synchromax? It is a synthetic MTL designed for transmissions that spec ATF. Supposedly has bette AW and EP adds than ATF.
For the most part this fluid has the ABSOLUTE WORST rep/MOST problems in these (stock) T56 gearboxes of almost ANYTHING out there. It sounds great on paper, but those AW and EP add packs are exactly what wreaks havoc on the cellulose blocker rings!!!
What about RP Synchromax? It is a synthetic MTL designed for transmissions that spec ATF. Supposedly has bette AW and EP adds than ATF.
For the most part this fluid has the ABSOLUTE WORST rep/MOST problems in these (stock) T56 gearboxes of almost ANYTHING out there. It sounds great on paper, but those AW and EP add packs are exactly what wreaks havoc on the cellulose blocker rings!!!
Why not try Redline D4ATF? It's GL4 rated.
Yes, that RP should have much greater protection than ATF. Reports from people are varied, like poor shifting or short life.
Other RP gear oil tests scare me away from using their gear oils, though.
Other RP gear oil tests scare me away from using their gear oils, though.
I haven't read a positive review of RP syncromax in a T56.
Originally Posted By: double vanos
Why not try Redline D4ATF? It's GL4 rated.
Results with this stuff are quite varied in T56es (especially in the cellulose blocker ring versions). I would risk trying it IF (and ONLY if) I had my T56 rebuilt with the carbon fiber blocker rings.
This is ONLY my theory and speculation, but I suspect that the high ester base stock content of the D4 attracts and holds moisture. This moisture (if not 'burnt away' by transmission heat) then swells the 'paper' blockers, which then prevents proper gear pickup and engagement.
Any engineers, and/or tribologists out there have any thoughts/opinions on this??
Why not try Redline D4ATF? It's GL4 rated.
Results with this stuff are quite varied in T56es (especially in the cellulose blocker ring versions). I would risk trying it IF (and ONLY if) I had my T56 rebuilt with the carbon fiber blocker rings.
This is ONLY my theory and speculation, but I suspect that the high ester base stock content of the D4 attracts and holds moisture. This moisture (if not 'burnt away' by transmission heat) then swells the 'paper' blockers, which then prevents proper gear pickup and engagement.
Any engineers, and/or tribologists out there have any thoughts/opinions on this??
Am I the only one who thinks paper blocker rings is a bad idea?
- Status
Similar threads
