Mixing Rotella T4 and T6

[DGXR]

Whoa I have not checked back here in a long time LOL. Sorry about that. The hard starting was not completely attributed to the oil... the XR400 is just a cold-blooded beast and I have finally figured out the starting routine -- you have to basically flood it to get it to cold start below 40F.
I have been mixing T4 15w40 and T6 15w40 with good results -- I don't need the 5w40 viscosity anywhere that I ride. The reason I don't use T5 is because it does not have the MA/MA2 mentioned on the back like T4 and T6 have. Yes I know it says "meets specifications" and not "properly certified" by JASO but that's fine with me.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

BLS, what temperature is that oil shown?

No temp was given with the photo...

 

[Bonz]

No temp was given with the photo...

Do you see where I am going with this? That DIRTY oil in the picture is not anything close to 32° when even 10w stands up like ice cream going into a cone. That stuff is WELL below freezing. Folks that read this thread moving forward should note that and take it for what it's worth.

 

[sk_pete]

BLS, what temperature is that oil shown?

since even the 5w looks like honey it should be quite a freeze

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Do you see where I am going with this? That DIRTY oil in the picture is not anything close to 32° when even 10w stands up like ice cream going into a cone. That stuff is WELL below freezing. Folks that read this thread moving forward should note that and take it for what it's worth.

Its worth to note the colder the oil the greater the diffeernce in flow rates... but even at hot 104F day there is still a difference in flow rates... quicker flow rate during start up is the whole point of 0W oil because the consensus among factory engineers and oil companies is that most engine wear occurs at startup before oil can circulate through the engine...

0w 40 @ 104F =71
5W 40 @ 104F =76
10W 40 @ 104F= 97

Quote Amsoil "60% of total engine wear occurs during cold start up
conditions before oil can circulate through the engine"

 

[ZeeOSix]

Its worth to note the colder the oil the greater the diffeernce in flow rates... but even at hot 104F day there is still a difference in flow rates... quicker flow rate during start up is the whole point of 0W oil because the consensus among factory engineers and oil companies is that most engine wear occurs at startup before oil can circulate through the engine...

0w 40 @ 104F =71
5W 40 @ 104F =76
10W 40 @ 104F= 97

Quote Amsoil "60% of total engine wear occurs during cold start up
conditions before oil can circulate through the engine"

The PD oil pump ensures oil circulation, unless the oil isn't totally pumpable (meaning it can't 100% get to the pump on the suction side), which takes some pretty extreme conditions depending on the "W " (Winter) rating. The "W" rating of motor oil means something, and people should always abide by the recommended "W" rating.

 

[Bonz]

Its worth to note the colder the oil the greater the diffeernce in flow rates... but even at hot 104F day there is still a difference in flow rates... quicker flow rate during start up is the whole point of 0W oil because the consensus among factory engineers and oil companies is that most engine wear occurs at startup before oil can circulate through the engine...

0w 40 @ 104F =71
5W 40 @ 104F =76
10W 40 @ 104F= 97

Quote Amsoil "60% of total engine wear occurs during cold start up
conditions before oil can circulate through the engine"

That's interesting info. Those numbers represent what in terms of their unit label? And how much significance is there in the difference? Does 10w40 @97 mean there's approximately 25% less resistance to flow than 0W 40? Thanks for helping me understand how those numbers are related to each other.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

That's interesting info. Those numbers represent what in terms of their unit label? And how much significance is there in the difference? Does 10w40 @97 mean there's approximately 25% less resistance to flow than 0W 40? Thanks for helping me understand how those numbers are related to each other.

You're welcome Bonz... viscosity numbers 71 76 97 are the gravity flow of oil in cSt... as you know the lower the number the more desirable flow... ideally we want to reach operating numbers for a 40 grade of 12.5 to 16.3 cSt... its significance enough for the oil companies to invest in this video... Fast Forward because the good stuff starts at 1:25... like engines running with the valve covers removed so you can see the problem... Esso made an excellent video to help customers understand the right choice in oil is critical in any country at any time in year...

 

[Degreaser]

I'm in Canada and temperature is about 15c, I have a water cooled wet sump Kawasaki 800, I put in Rotella T4 15w40, I'm always concerned about start up engine wear, should I be using T6 5w40?

 

[ZeeOSix]

You're welcome Bonz... viscosity numbers 71 76 97 are the gravity flow of oil in cSt... as you know the lower the number the more desirable flow... ideally we want to reach operating numbers for a 40 grade of 12.5 to 16.3 cSt... its significance enough for the oil companies to invest in this video... Fast Forward because the good stuff starts at 1:25... like engines running with the valve covers removed so you can see the problem... Esso made an excellent video to help customers understand the right choice in oil is critical in any country at any time in year...

Refer to Post #46 and you won't have any cold starting issues.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I'm in Canada and temperature is about 15c, I have a water cooled wet sump Kawasaki 800, I put in Rotella T4 15w40, I'm always concerned about start up engine wear, should I be using T6 5w40?

What's the owner's manual show to use for temperatures of 15C ?

 

[Bonz]

I run 20w50 down to the 32 deg (for a nice "round number", I.E. freezing) in my bikes at times in the winter. I am trying to discern even though there are differences in flow rate, what is the reality with reference to additional wear and tear at start up. I'm not even referencing wear and tear at the freezing point as that's once or twice a year it is that cold but the outdoor temperature is in the 40s and sunny when I'm riding but the bike is still cold from the garage.

With summertime temperatures when a bike gets started cold in the morning (50-60 deg) 3 or 4 times a week the difference in start up wear and tear I would believe is small even though the discrepancy in those numbers can look like a lot. We hear that most wear occurs at start up, which I can agree with, however what is the difference in wear and tear rate at start up between a 10w and 20w despite the difference in the numbers? Is there a study comparing relative rates?

 

[BigJohn]

Follow up.... to my post above.

I have 50% T6, 5w40 and 50%, T4, 15w40 in most of my motorcycles and after 3-5k on my two big bikes, they are still running awesome and shifting smooth.

Mixing/Blending has been very positive for me.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

I'm in Canada and temperature is about 15c, I have a water cooled wet sump Kawasaki 800, I put in Rotella T4 15w40, I'm always concerned about start up engine wear, should I be using T6 5w40?

Kawasaki 800 manual recommends 10W40... but you could use either a 5W or a 0W 40...

 

[Ride_Red]

You're welcome Bonz... viscosity numbers 71 76 97 are the gravity flow of oil in cSt... as you know the lower the number the more desirable flow... ideally we want to reach operating numbers for a 40 grade of 12.5 to 16.3 cSt... its significance enough for the oil companies to invest in this video... Fast Forward because the good stuff starts at 1:25... like engines running with the valve covers removed so you can see the problem... Esso made an excellent video to help customers understand the right choice in oil is critical in any country at any time in year...

The video looks like it's from the late 80's.
Is wax really a major component of motor oil these days? The synthetic oils we have today flow much better at lower temperatures. True, you still need to select an appropriate grade for your climate.

 

[Bonz]

When refining motor oil manufacturers take most of the wax out because it's used in other industries. I agree, how relevant is some of what is shared? They don't just make money on the oil or even when crude is refined into gasoline the byproducts are scavenged and turned into other products.

It seems old information gets shared as gospel.

 

[Bonz]

Most by-products from refining motor oil or gasoline are sold to other industries and turned into other things. I question the relevancy (other than to share history of the good old days) of some information that gets shared with respect to discussion

We see it on this forum all the time, 10,000+ mile oil change intervals and over the life of an engine it's spotless when pictures are shared.

 

[Degreaser]

My Vulcan 800 Kawasaki owner's manual says

-10c to 30c 10w30
-10c to 40c 10w40
-10c to 50c 10w50
0c to 40c 20w40
0c to 50c 20w50
Recommended 10w40

I have 15w40 T4 in the bike now
I have some T6 5w40 on hand,
Maybe I could mix that T6 50/50 with the 15w40 like BigJohn does to get recommended 10w40

 

[ZeeOSix]

My Vulcan 800 Kawasaki owner's manual says

-10c to 30c 10w30
-10c to 40c 10w40
-10c to 50c 10w50
0c to 40c 20w40
0c to 50c 20w50
Recommended 10w40

I have 15w40 T4 in the bike now
I have some T6 5w40 on hand,
Maybe I could mix that T6 50/50 with the 15w40 like BigJohn does to get recommended 10w40

If the coldest temperature you ride in is 15C like you mentioned in post #49, then 15W-40 looks to be perfectly fine to use. Of course, it won't hurt to do the mix if that's what makes you feel better about colds start-ups.

 

[jeff78]

The video looks like it's from the late 80's.
Is wax really a major component of motor oil these days?

The temperature of the oils in that video was -35C. I'd wonder how many motorcyclists are starting up and riding their bikes at that temperature.

Ignore BLS - he's a copy&paste troll who regurgitates the same misinformation over and over again.