Mitigating Carbon Deposits on 2025 Honda Pilot with J35Y8 Engine

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Since buying the Pilot in May of this year, we've put on almost 13k miles. When the car had 10k miles, I did its third oil change with 5.6k miles on the oil using AMSOIL Signature Series 0w20 and Amsoil EA15K13 filter (previous OCIs were at 500 and 4.5k miles on odometer using same oil), 4k of those miles on a long road trip. Cutting open the filter, I saw lots of carbon deposits. Reading more about the J35Y8 engine, it appears to be highly prone to carbon deposits.

What I know so far: A) It's GDI, but I knew this when I bought it. My previous car was a 2022 Audi Q5 with GDI also, and I never saw carbon deposits like this, even running the oil several thousand miles longer. B) Using a scan tool, I've learned Honda's VCM system is constantly turning off the rear bank of cylinders, even at speeds less than 30mph and within a minute or two after starting the car and driving.

The Audi was always fed premium, Top Tier fuel, almost exclusively Shell V-Power. The Honda, requiring only 87 octane, has been fed Top Tier fuel, mostly from a Quik Trip close to the house.

used oil analysis from the Pilot have shown Manganese levels of 16, 14, and 18ppm respectively from the first three used oil analysis. I've used some fuel additives, but are the same as used in the Audi where Manganese levels were always 0. The only place it can (or should) be coming from is the Quik Trip fuel.

Since the last oil change, I am running almost exclusively Shell premium and have not used a drop of fuel additive. I pulled an oil sample at 3k miles and will be sending it to Wearcheck for used oil analysis to see if the Mn has disappeared. If not, I don't have a clue where it's coming from, as everything I've read about the J35Y8 engine says Mn is not used in any components in this engine.

I recently bought a scan tool and quickly learned in Normal drive mode, Honda's VCM system is constantly switching off the rear bank of cylinders, even at speeds lower than 30mph and within a minute or two after starting driving. This darn-sure can't be a good thing.

This is what I'm doing to see if I can mitigate the carbon: A) Using only Shell premium unless the used oil analysis shows otherwise. B) Using Sport or Tow drive modes, as these prevent the VCM system from activating on the J35Y8 engine, confirmed using the scan tool, but I've only just begun doing so. C) Shortening the OCI to a max of 5k, but may shorten to 4k unless I see a marked improvement.

What other things should I be looking at doing to help mitigate the carbon on this cursed engine? Thank you.
 
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It would have been nice if Honda made it a port-GDI system. I think intake valve deposits look worse than they really are in terms of actually being a functioning problem. However, I still would rather not that kind of buildup.

Mitigating IVD has been a big topic over the years and there has been a lot discussion on it. I'm of the opinion that you really can't do much of anything.

I don't remember where I read it, but one of the manufacturers (VW?) had a method where you run at 4k rpms for a sustained period of time to help clean them off. Not sure how or why that would work.

In terms of IVD and oil, several things have been mentioned as possibly being related to them - oxidation resistance of base oils (preventing coking), less VII, lower Noack (doubtful), sulphated ash and solvency.

I would probably run Valvoline Restore and Protect from day one. It's the only intriguing idea to me and possibly a wild card solution. It's been said that the oil that reaches the IVD is actually oil and not as much oil vapor as some think. Being Valvoline Restore and Protect has an ability to dissolve carbon in high temp rings, it may be worth a shot. Other good choices - Mobil 1 ESP, Mobil 1 Advanced Clean, AMSOIL Signature Series, HPL No VII Euro.
 
Black stuff you find in your filter is not “carbon deposits,” which is carbon embedded on internal engine surfaces like valves and piston tops. The manganese in the engine is not doing any harm and must come from the additives, or the fuel or maybe the oil but doubtful.

If this were my car, I would do a Liqui Moly engine flush, cheap rinse oil, new oil with a new oil filter in each step. The dirt in the filter is a bit of a mystery.

I have driven several J series engines to the 300,000 mile mark, and have not found them particularly hard on oil. Over the handful of cars, I only had the (unwanted) VCM in one, so that might be a factor. In your case, would stick with lots of short OCI changes until this contamination goes away. Since the car is so new, you could also start a file with the dealer on the off chance that there is a mechanical issue.
 
One method is to use an AN based oil. Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w30 has significant AN base stock. It is stunningly good at preventing deposits without high levels of harsh cleaning additives. The current crop of 'clean up' oils contain altered levels of calcium or magnesium sulfonates, phenates, salicylates and polyisobutylene succinimides.

For those who have engines with wet belts (oil submerged kevlar/rubber oil pump or timing belts and/or plastic internal parts) I believe it is best to stay away from oils with powerful cleaning chemistries. And much better to stick with an oil that uses AN base stocks as the method of deposit mitigation.
 
One method is to use an AN based oil. Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w30 has significant AN base stock. It is stunningly good at preventing deposits without high levels of harsh cleaning additives. The current crop of 'clean up' oils contain altered levels of calcium or magnesium sulfonates, phenates, salicylates and polyisobutylene succinimides.
I don't believe, and certainly hope, between the filter and dispersants in the AMSOIL Signature Series, very little, if any, are actively being deposited in places the sun doesn't shine.

I bought a fancier borescope with dual cameras. When I do my next oil change, I'm going to stick it into any orifice it will fit (in the engine 😒 ) and see what I can see. I also plan on seeing how much oil is in the pan after draining using the scope, setting up a video camera focused on the drain hole, then pour a fresh quart of oil through the engine to see the color of the stuff coming out, then scope the insides again. LSJr advocates doing this when changing brands of oils, but I have a few extra quarts of AMSOIL Signature Series and I'd prefer to experiment with it vs the HPL I bought.
 
If this were my car, I would do a Liqui Moly engine flush, cheap rinse oil, new oil with a new oil filter in each step. The dirt in the filter is a bit of a mystery.
Probably not going to flush just yet, as I want to see what the next filter C&P looks like... but it's on my radar.

Terrible to think an engine flush would be necessary after only 13k miles on the odometer and having the OEM fill, then four more OCIs using AMSOIL Signature Series!
 
OK, I have a question on this.

GDI engine carbon deposits are normally associated with intake valves - because unlike MPI no fuel sprays on the valves to clean them.

1) Do you believe the carbon is coming from here? If so, why do you think fuel brand / TT matters - relative only to the carbon question
2) or do you think the carbon is coming from elsewhere - EGR pushing in cylinder or wherever?

I personally don't think TT fuel is going to help (or hurt either) with carbon build up specifically caused by GDI. IMHO. I think its a design issue - some engines do, some don't.
 
Personally I think you’re doing everything right. High quality oil, fuel, and filters. I also believe what you’re seeing in the filter is a result of you doing everything right and you’re keeping that engine clean. I would continue with 5k oci’s and use Redline SL1 or Techron total fuel system cleaner a few times per year.

If you do ever get sick of using boutique oils every 5k I agree with @buster, Valvoline Restore and Protect.
 
OK, I have a question on this.

GDI engine carbon deposits are normally associated with intake valves - because unlike MPI no fuel sprays on the valves to clean them.

1) Do you believe the carbon is coming from here? If so, why do you think fuel brand / TT matters - relative only to the carbon question
2) or do you think the carbon is coming from elsewhere - EGR pushing in cylinder or wherever?

I personally don't think TT fuel is going to help (or hurt either) with carbon build up specifically caused by GDI. IMHO. I think its a design issue - some engines do, some don't.
I wish I knew the answers. I believe the carbon is because of something related to the design of this horrid VCM system. The purpose switching to only Shell premium is two-fold. 1) See if the other fuels used, specifically Quik Trip 87 octane, was the source of the Manganese. 2) See if using Shell premium reduces the carbon levels seen in the filter.

I planned on running this experiment for 5k miles, but the last time I filled up at a Shell, they had their 87 octane on sale for $1.40 less than premium. That was too great a difference for me to pass up logically. Also, my wife and I have started using only Sport (my wife's favorite) or Tow (my preferred) drive modes so VCM no longer engages. Both of these modes also disable auto start/stop, so we no longer have to mash that button at startup.
 
Personally I think you’re doing everything right. High quality oil, fuel, and filters. I also believe what you’re seeing in the filter is a result of you doing everything right and you’re keeping that engine clean. I would continue with 5k oci’s and use Redline SL1 or Techron total fuel system cleaner a few times per year.
Thank you for saying this. I have a couple of bottles of Redline SI-1 on my shelf, waiting until after I change out the filter to see if anything I've done yet has helped.

If you do ever get sick of using boutique oils every 5k I agree with @buster, Valvoline Restore and Protect.
Had I not already made a significant investment in five cases of HPL Premium Plus PCMO, I would be switching to Valvoline Restore and Protect and running 3k OCIs on this particular engine.

Before I bought my first case of HPL, I reached out to them with some questions. After they did some research on the J35Y8 engine, even they recommended not pushing OCIs too far, as one of the biggest complaints they found was carbon issues. I think 5k may be reasonable with their oil and changing filters each time.
 
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OK, I have a question on this.

GDI engine carbon deposits are normally associated with intake valves - because unlike MPI no fuel sprays on the valves to clean them.

1) Do you believe the carbon is coming from here? If so, why do you think fuel brand / TT matters - relative only to the carbon question
2) or do you think the carbon is coming from elsewhere - EGR pushing in cylinder or wherever?

I personally don't think TT fuel is going to help (or hurt either) with carbon build up specifically caused by GDI. IMHO. I think its a design issue - some engines do, some don't.
I'd like to add to your question. If someone tells me that intake valve deposits are making their way into the oil pan or filter, they'll need to explain the exact route to me. It's my opinion that IVD are going straight out the exhaust at a very high speed!
 
It would have been nice if Honda made it a port-GDI system. I think intake valve deposits look worse than they really are in terms of actually being a functioning problem. However, I still would rather not that kind of buildup.
Toyota uses port and direct injection. The non-US version of the 2022 Audi used MPI. Only the US version was GDI only.

US car companies are being run by none other than PT Barnum reincarnated, as we keep buying them.
 
5k OCI
Stop using shell gas and try another TT competitor
I ran Shell premium the whole time with the Audi at about 8k OCIs and never had carbon, let alone like I'm seeing with the Honda at fewer miles. One of the differences with the Honda is using 87 octane from Quik Trip, which is a Top Tier station. I switched to Shell premium this OCI because using it previously I never experienced carbon in the oil filters.
 
Probably not going to flush just yet, as I want to see what the next filter C&P looks like... but it's on my radar.

Terrible to think an engine flush would be necessary after only 13k miles on the odometer and having the OEM fill, then four more OCIs using AMSOIL Signature Series!
The product I mentioned will do no harm, and you can use Amsoil with it. If the engine is dirty, it’s unfortunate, but this is your best bet for a fix I think.


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I don't believe, and certainly hope, between the filter and dispersants in the AMSOIL Signature Series, very little, if any, are actively being deposited in places the sun doesn't shine.
You won't have carbon, sludge or varnish buildup. But you may get large carbon particulates. This may be a factor of the oil's ability to suspend and disburse carbon particulates. PAO's are great at keeping things clean. AN's or AN/PAO blends may be better at suspending particulates in microscopic form.

The 'clean filter test' does tell us something about whether the oil is right for the situation. Consider AN base stock oils and compare the amount of carbon bits captured. Remember oil additives can create carbon too. AN's shine here, as additive packages are different.
 
Toyota uses port and direct injection. The non-US version of the 2022 Audi used MPI. Only the US version was GDI only.

US car companies are being run by none other than PT Barnum reincarnated, as we keep buying them.
However, V35 in Sequoia/Tundra is still having CBU issues. I have seen TGDI engines either only DI that have less CBU.
PCV execution is the key here.
 
You won't have carbon, sludge or varnish buildup. But you may get large carbon particulates. This may be a factor of the oil's ability to suspend and disburse carbon particulates. PAO's are great at keeping things clean. AN's or AN/PAO blends may be better at suspending particulates in microscopic form.

The 'clean filter test' does tell us something about whether the oil is right for the situation. Consider AN base stock oils and compare the amount of carbon bits captured. Remember oil additives can create carbon too. AN's shine here, as additive packages are different.
Granted, this is the first J35 engine I've owned, but I've never seen anything like this before. I have HPL Premium Plus PCMO waiting in the wings, but I don't know if it contains Ans, or is just PAO.

I sent a sample this morning of the current oil to Wearcheck. With the holidays, I don't expect to hear back for a couple of weeks. At this point, I'm also trying to figure out why the Manganese level is 14-16ppm when the VOA shows zero. I'm hoping it's the fuel I was using and have not used during the 3k miles so far on this OCI.
 
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