Michelin X-Ice XI-3 - pretty good!

[WishIhadatruck]

I have a Cruze with X-Ice XI-3's on it for winter. I really like them overall. Compared to the Blizzak's I've had in the past (and present on another car) they feel more like an all season on dry and wet roads unless you really need to turn or brake hard. I do like that about them. I also get nearly the same fuel economy as I do with the OEM Goodyear Fuel Max tires.

Ice, they are great. Snow, very good. Salted mushy snow, pretty bad in my opinion. There isn't enough void area in the tread to deal with it and they just slide around. Overall I'm happy with them but as with all tires, they are not perfect. You just have to decide what your priorities are.

They seem to be wearing very well. 13k miles on them last winter with no rotation. I rotated them (relative to last years position) when installing at the beginning of this winter. I'll probably have 25-30k miles on them by spring and they still look like new right now. I'd need a new one to compare them to to tell they are wearing.

It will at least a few years before they need to be replaced but I'll either get them again or try Blizzak's or Nokian's.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: WishIhadatruck
I have a Cruze with X-Ice XI-3's on it for winter. I really like them overall. Compared to the Blizzak's I've had in the past (and present on another car) they feel more like an all season on dry and wet roads unless you really need to turn or brake hard. I do like that about them. I also get nearly the same fuel economy as I do with the OEM Goodyear Fuel Max tires.

Ice, they are great. Snow, very good. Salted mushy snow, pretty bad in my opinion. There isn't enough void area in the tread to deal with it and they just slide around. Overall I'm happy with them but as with all tires, they are not perfect. You just have to decide what your priorities are.

They seem to be wearing very well. 13k miles on them last winter with no rotation. I rotated them (relative to last years position) when installing at the beginning of this winter. I'll probably have 25-30k miles on them by spring and they still look like new right now. I'd need a new one to compare them to to tell they are wearing.

It will at least a few years before they need to be replaced but I'll either get them again or try Blizzak's or Nokian's.

That is pretty much agreement here in high country. They are really good, except slush (especially salted snow) and deep powder.
But again, I am not sure Michelin's intention was to make tire for small percentage of drivers that are facing these conditions or waiting blizzard to go to ski. For me, since I love to ski, tire that has really good deep snow capabilities is a must.
If I lived on the East Coast I would probably go with Xi3 or for BMW Xi2.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: WishIhadatruck
I have a Cruze with X-Ice XI-3's on it for winter. I really like them overall. Compared to the Blizzak's I've had in the past (and present on another car) they feel more like an all season on dry and wet roads unless you really need to turn or brake hard. I do like that about them. I also get nearly the same fuel economy as I do with the OEM Goodyear Fuel Max tires.

Ice, they are great. Snow, very good. Salted mushy snow, pretty bad in my opinion. There isn't enough void area in the tread to deal with it and they just slide around. Overall I'm happy with them but as with all tires, they are not perfect. You just have to decide what your priorities are.

They seem to be wearing very well. 13k miles on them last winter with no rotation. I rotated them (relative to last years position) when installing at the beginning of this winter. I'll probably have 25-30k miles on them by spring and they still look like new right now. I'd need a new one to compare them to to tell they are wearing.

It will at least a few years before they need to be replaced but I'll either get them again or try Blizzak's or Nokian's.

That's pretty much my experience with the yoko ig52c as well, although at highway speeds they seem OK in slush, just not around town. Also I find these tires don't seem to change their sipe pattern as they wear, so its hard to eyeball them. I measured them at 8.5-9/32 after 2 winters and ~15-18k miles.

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted By: edyvw

The worst winter tire is better then best A/S tire in winter conditions, including dry when temperature is below 45 degrees!


I have to disagree. That's just trash marketing from tirerack.
You cant tell me a studded winterforce at 44F is better than a Michelin Premier A/S in the dry.
In the Wet Above freezing the difference is even more pronounced.. such as in stopping distance from 50mph.

I'm one of the biggest winter tire fans on BITOG but that isnt a logical or true statement. Its Tirerack Marketing.
In the dry there are plenty of all-seasons the would blow away the handling of most winter tires even at 30F.

Originally Posted By: sciphi

Overall, I see why so many people like these tires. They really do work in all winter conditions.


They are excellent and will get you though just about anything you can go through in a car without ripping off body pieces.
When they talk about deep snow traction lacking. That is compared to other class leading winter tires. They certainly arent "lacking" in deep snow traction compared to anything else.

Overall they are a great winter tire straddling the line between performance winter tires and max traction winter tires such as the blizzak ws-80. While their dry/wet traction and handling is superior to the blizzak ws-80

 

[SHOZ]

The Xi3 is good enough for year round use.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
The Xi3 is good enough for year round use.

I ran a set of new Xi1 on the Tracker year round and they were the best tires I had on it except for deep snow conditions, the old goodyear nordics were much better. They did wear quite a bit in 20K miles though, but the new Xi3 should be better for that.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: edyvw

The worst winter tire is better then best A/S tire in winter conditions, including dry when temperature is below 45 degrees!


I have to disagree. That's just trash marketing from tirerack.
You cant tell me a studded winterforce at 44F is better than a Michelin Premier A/S in the dry.
In the Wet Above freezing the difference is even more pronounced.. such as in stopping distance from 50mph.

I'm one of the biggest winter tire fans on BITOG but that isnt a logical or true statement. Its Tirerack Marketing.
In the dry there are plenty of all-seasons the would blow away the handling of most winter tires even at 30F.

Originally Posted By: sciphi

Overall, I see why so many people like these tires. They really do work in all winter conditions.


They are excellent and will get you though just about anything you can go through in a car without ripping off body pieces.
When they talk about deep snow traction lacking. That is compared to other class leading winter tires. They certainly arent "lacking" in deep snow traction compared to anything else.

Overall they are a great winter tire straddling the line between performance winter tires and max traction winter tires such as the blizzak ws-80. While their dry/wet traction and handling is superior to the blizzak ws-80

I am talking about studless tires and no I am not taking talking points from Tire Rack. I worked some time ago on tire testing for car magazine I worked for in Europe. For me A/S tire is the biggest scam by tire industry. Not good in hot, not good in cold, full of compromises etc.

 

[rslifkin]

I'll agree that "all season" tires kinda suck at everything. I've had times where I've though the snows didn't have any more grip than an a/s on wet or dry pavement when above freezing, but I've never had a point where an a/s had demonstrated more grip in the past.

Heck, until it starts to get below freezing, on wet or dry pavement, my summer tires have more grip than an a/s (or the snows, for that matter).

 

[supton]

I tried "summer" tires once but found traction to be worse than a/s on wet roads--Nokian i3, I noticed they didn't last long on the market. Later on I found myself wanting to yank the tires for fear of snow, I could see they had no biz in snow. In conclusion I decided I'd rather have a/s than summer. They might suck in snow but they likely suck less than "summer" tires.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: supton
I tried "summer" tires once but found traction to be worse than a/s on wet roads--Nokian i3, I noticed they didn't last long on the market. Later on I found myself wanting to yank the tires for fear of snow, I could see they had no biz in snow. In conclusion I decided I'd rather have a/s than summer. They might suck in snow but they likely suck less than "summer" tires.

Well, Nokian is not really known as summer tire specialist.
Put on Camry tire like Michelin Primacy, Continental SportContact etc. and then make an observation.
I had on my previous car, VW CC Michelin Pilot Super Sport, which are max performance summer tire, overkill for CC. There is no A/S tire I ever had (and Had Michelin, Continental, Bridgestone, Dunlop, Good Year, Kumho) that had such wet grip and I am not going to even bother with comparing dry grip. The craziest thing is that they were down to 3/32 and still had decent hydroplaning resistance, but never, never had drop in crazy glue grip on wet and dry.
Comparing AS tire to quality summer tire is like comparing Toyota to TATA.
Same is with winters. There are A/S tires that are Ok in snow, but for any serious traction, braking you still want serious winter tire.

 

[supton]

Had Primacy on Camry. Ok tire, but the only tire I've had which had better snow traction half-worn than when new. No seriously, even my wife commented on it--they were that horrible in snow. Lousy life too, 30k and done. I think we went to 40k, wearing down the wear bars in the process. The RT43's that replaced them will last a bit longer, had better snow traction, and were much cheaper--however the Primacies did do good in wet, at least right until the bitter end, like 2/32's, will give them that.

Both tires have been just fine on bare pavement, but then again, a bald tire would do just fine.

I've only had three bad tires: Nokian i3 (lousy in wet), Nokian WR (1st gen, didn't feel they did anything good enough to justify the price), and Michelin Primacy/Energy (pricey, short lived, lousy in snow).

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: edyvw

The worst winter tire is better then best A/S tire in winter conditions, including dry when temperature is below 45 degrees!


I have to disagree. That's just trash marketing from tirerack.
You cant tell me a studded winterforce at 44F is better than a Michelin Premier A/S in the dry.
In the Wet Above freezing the difference is even more pronounced.. such as in stopping distance from 50mph.

I'm one of the biggest winter tire fans on BITOG but that isnt a logical or true statement. Its Tirerack Marketing.
In the dry there are plenty of all-seasons the would blow away the handling of most winter tires even at 30F.

Originally Posted By: sciphi

Overall, I see why so many people like these tires. They really do work in all winter conditions.


They are excellent and will get you though just about anything you can go through in a car without ripping off body pieces.
When they talk about deep snow traction lacking. That is compared to other class leading winter tires. They certainly arent "lacking" in deep snow traction compared to anything else.

Overall they are a great winter tire straddling the line between performance winter tires and max traction winter tires such as the blizzak ws-80. While their dry/wet traction and handling is superior to the blizzak ws-80

I am talking about studless tires and no I am not taking talking points from Tire Rack. I worked some time ago on tire testing for car magazine I worked for in Europe. For me A/S tire is the biggest scam by tire industry. Not good in hot, not good in cold, full of compromises etc.


I pretty much agree, especially on the bottom end A/S tires. Going forward I'll probably buy a performance biased touring tire for the summer and just make sure to always switch to winters before we get snow.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: supton
Had Primacy on Camry. Ok tire, but the only tire I've had which had better snow traction half-worn than when new. No seriously, even my wife commented on it--they were that horrible in snow. Lousy life too, 30k and done. I think we went to 40k, wearing down the wear bars in the process. The RT43's that replaced them will last a bit longer, had better snow traction, and were much cheaper--however the Primacies did do good in wet, at least right until the bitter end, like 2/32's, will give them that.

Both tires have been just fine on bare pavement, but then again, a bald tire would do just fine.

I've only had three bad tires: Nokian i3 (lousy in wet), Nokian WR (1st gen, didn't feel they did anything good enough to justify the price), and Michelin Primacy/Energy (pricey, short lived, lousy in snow).

As name indicates summer tires are not made for snow and they are made to maximize performance, hence short tread life.
But, if your priorities are tread life and some kind of snow traction, then yeah, A/S is probably ok choice.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: supton
Had Primacy on Camry. Ok tire, but the only tire I've had which had better snow traction half-worn than when new. No seriously, even my wife commented on it--they were that horrible in snow. Lousy life too, 30k and done. I think we went to 40k, wearing down the wear bars in the process. The RT43's that replaced them will last a bit longer, had better snow traction, and were much cheaper--however the Primacies did do good in wet, at least right until the bitter end, like 2/32's, will give them that.

Both tires have been just fine on bare pavement, but then again, a bald tire would do just fine.

I've only had three bad tires: Nokian i3 (lousy in wet), Nokian WR (1st gen, didn't feel they did anything good enough to justify the price), and Michelin Primacy/Energy (pricey, short lived, lousy in snow).

As name indicates summer tires are not made for snow and they are made to maximize performance, hence short tread life.
But, if your priorities are tread life and some kind of snow traction, then yeah, A/S is probably ok choice.


EDIT: I see now that I was not detailed. I was thinking about Primacy 3 or Primacy HP, not Primacy A/S versions that are sold in the U.S. That just proves my point that you could have manufacturer like Michelin offering A/S? tire, but poor snow performance. In my interpretation, that could make a lot of people confused as what is then AS tire? Drivers who are not into this at all, treating their cars like appliances or necessary evil, will go for best bang for a buck, and name AS offers that, but does not offer best bang for a buck when it comes to performance (not tread life) in snow or in dry warm weather.
Sometimes in the NA market it is not possible to buy summer tires for some cars, so A/S is only option for summer.

 

[turboseize]

Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: edyvw

The worst winter tire is better then best A/S tire in winter conditions, including dry when temperature is below 45 degrees!


I have to disagree. That's just trash marketing from tirerack.
You cant tell me a studded winterforce at 44F is better than a Michelin Premier A/S in the dry.
In the Wet Above freezing the difference is even more pronounced.. such as in stopping distance from 50mph.

I'm one of the biggest winter tire fans on BITOG but that isnt a logical or true statement. Its Tirerack Marketing.
In the dry there are plenty of all-seasons the would blow away the handling of most winter tires even at 30F.


Well, I think it depends strongly on the tyres you are comparing. There are definitely summer tyres that handle cold dry roads better than winter tyres. Some summer tyres are even better on cold wet roads. But then, you can also find pairs of tyres whith the opposite relationship.

Take my summer tyres, for example. On the 900, Michelin ES+. On the 9000, Michelin Pilot Exalto. The ES only have wet grip when it is really hot, the PE perform nicely in all climates. As long as temperatures are above 10°C. Below 10°, NO wet grip whatsoever. None.
The Alpin A4 is much, much better in the wet than these two summer tyres if temperatures are in the single digits.