There is a discussion going on at a GN board about methanol in oil, and what it does. I thought I would post here since this is the closest place I could find. Racers often use methanol instead of gas, and I wanted to know what problems methanol caused in oil, in small amounts, meaning 20% of fuel used, and when used as the main fuel.
Methanol's effect on oil?
- Thread starter Shaman
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I know that in the 2 stroke engine, the methanol is attacking the oil mixed with the gasoline.
This is a great topic, since most gasoline now has at least 10% mixed in with it. I imagine the unburned fuel that finds it's way to the oil sump will attack the oil also......Wondering?
This is a great topic, since most gasoline now has at least 10% mixed in with it. I imagine the unburned fuel that finds it's way to the oil sump will attack the oil also......Wondering?
Street gasoline has ethanol mixed in, typically not methanol.
Methanol can be very tough on oil. Thinning, degrading, water carrying, acid build up, etc.
Methanol can be very tough on oil. Thinning, degrading, water carrying, acid build up, etc.
Methanol is brutal on anything.
Ethanol is much better.
Ethanol is much better.
Methanol produces a poisonous gas and is very corrosive to aluminum. As said above, Ethanol is blended at max 10% in most gasolines and E85 is 85% Ethanol and 15% gasoline. In racing alcohol dragsters use Ethanol and Ethanol is used in the Indy cars.
If someone has an additive with Methanol in it, do not use it.
If someone has an additive with Methanol in it, do not use it.
I believe for racing, ULX 110 and Brad Penns are good enough to go another day on methanol/ethanol/alcho fuels without turning to jelly. This i have heard from seller and Drag racer themself down here in Melbourne.The ULX is imported to Australia from the U.S. Brad Penns just started arriving. Johnny may be able to clarify, but the Pennzoil 25W50 Racing GT only seems to last the race meet. All being mineral oils, its amazing how some can still resist. I wonder how its done.
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Back in the late 80's when I was involved in NHRA, and when Pennzoil was a major player, the top fuel and nitro funny cars would change the GT 70 Racing Oil after every run. I'm not sure the ULX or Brad Penn would perform any better using nitro. That's some nasty stuff. The alcohol funny cars and dragsters could run all day on this oil, and it was only changed if they had to tear down the engine.
MolaKule
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I used to formulate oil for NCRA racers in KS who ran methanol.
Many racers use some type of 50 or 60 weight multigrade, but best engine efficiency can be had with a 20W50.
Methanol can thin out a 20W50 down to a 0W30 easily, which is why most racers changed out their oil after a race.
Careful formulation is required to keep wear to a minimum during a race. Our engine oil never thined below a 40 weight even after three races.
Many NCRA racers have switched to E85 or 100% ethanol.
Many racers use some type of 50 or 60 weight multigrade, but best engine efficiency can be had with a 20W50.
Methanol can thin out a 20W50 down to a 0W30 easily, which is why most racers changed out their oil after a race.
Careful formulation is required to keep wear to a minimum during a race. Our engine oil never thined below a 40 weight even after three races.
Many NCRA racers have switched to E85 or 100% ethanol.
Ah the smell of burnt Methanol. Get to near to a sprintcar exhaust and it will floor you.
Originally Posted By: sprintman
Ah the smell of burnt Methanol. Get to near to a sprintcar exhaust and it will floor you.
Sprintman, you should know, what are they mainly using here in Australia ? Im sure methanol is mainly used here in Melbourne??
Ah the smell of burnt Methanol. Get to near to a sprintcar exhaust and it will floor you.
Sprintman, you should know, what are they mainly using here in Australia ? Im sure methanol is mainly used here in Melbourne??
MolaKule
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Ah the smell of burnt Methanol. Get to near to a sprintcar exhaust and it will floor you.
Very true and nothing else quite like it. Now mix a little bit of 20W50 PCMO with the burning methanol and you have a great Colone.
Ah the smell of burnt Methanol. Get to near to a sprintcar exhaust and it will floor you.
Very true and nothing else quite like it. Now mix a little bit of 20W50 PCMO with the burning methanol and you have a great Colone.
Still Methanol but I'll double check
Pretty sure that the shell stuff has a percent or two acetone, and that a lot of the racers use some sort of UCL with it.
When I did my thesis, the guy the year before had been trialling the test unit on methanol...white deposits and corrosion all over the thing...spent the first weeks cleaning rather than doing.
When I did my thesis, the guy the year before had been trialling the test unit on methanol...white deposits and corrosion all over the thing...spent the first weeks cleaning rather than doing.
I don't know the answer but I run a fairly large shot of meth, close to 20% of total fuel at WOT so I change every 1,000 miles which takes about a year anyway. I have a friend's GN that's going on 5,000 miles with an abnormally large shot, guessing in the 30%+ range (28psi boost, 22 degrees timing, 91 octane). I'll try and get a used oil analysis since I do the oil changes on his car.
Kestas
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I had the opportunity to examine an engine that ran on methanol. One thing I found was that burning methanol produces large amounts of formic acid. This acid ends up in the oil and corrodes the engine internals. It was like a chocolate milkshake explosion in the crankcase.
Speedway bikes with jawa engines specify silkolene 4T castorene sae50 for use with methanol. OCI is every 5 heats and you drain the carb and fog the engine every time you are done at the track.
These are single speed 500cc engines with 60-70hp.
These are single speed 500cc engines with 60-70hp.
Yeah Tom, Various racers and hot-rodders have been dealing with methanol since the 1930s or earlier. It's a PITA for racing but manageable.
When I lived in Riverside in the 1950s there was at least one gas station in LA that sold methanol out of a gas pump.
I live 15 miles from the Auburn CA Fast Fridays Speedway track. I need to go one of these days.
When I lived in Riverside in the 1950s there was at least one gas station in LA that sold methanol out of a gas pump.
I live 15 miles from the Auburn CA Fast Fridays Speedway track. I need to go one of these days.
Pretty sure that Methanol is Hygroscopic , that is it attracts water. So it will pull water from the combustion process and this will accumulate in the engine , mix with acids and ....... well , I don't have to say it !! Classic bike racers here in the UK & Europe run an Castrol R , this is a castor based oil which is less affected by Methanol.
Don't forget, the cheap "gas dryers" are methanol (usually about $0.50 for a pint bottle. Now, adding a pint to 10-15+ gallons of gas is less than 1% ... but I still avoid the stuff and (occasionally) use isopropanol instead.
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