Messerschmitt Me 262

[Jetronic]

It might have been a game changer, might not.

"First time I saw a jet, I shot it down...not very sportsmanlike, but what the hell" - Chuck Yeager.

It was a new technology and had to be flown in a totally new way compared to piston engined fighters. Remember what the (west-)germans could do with the MIG-29 once they figured out how to capitalise on it's strong points?

Chuck Yeager was not your average fighter pilot anyway, but didn't he catch one as it was landing or taking off without cover?

In my opinion, the plane had to be available in abundance before the allied forces went to day time bombing raids (as a fighter), and before there was a western front (as a bomber). It neutralised the P51 air cover for the bombers, and was fast enough as a bomber to outrun any interceptors. But key was to not let it's speed drop as they took a long time to regain it. And not get distracted by the fighter escort, leave those to the bf-109 and fw-190 pilots.

 

[Astro14]

Didn’t really neutralize air cover. It was still susceptible to a well placed .50 cal bullet but it made it harder to put that bullet on target.

If the Luftwaffe had them in similar numbers to the number of P-47 and/or P-51, it would’ve made a difference.

The question of victory in the skies was principally one of industrial capacity, not minor technological advantage, like 100 MPH in top speed. Turn rate, climb rate, stall speed, engine response, armament, and pilot skill all mattered, too.

More than one ME-262 was lost to US fighters in the air. It was better but not invincible and it was not better in every way.

Germany lost the away game in the air early on, and had to play the home game for the rest of the war.

They were simply overwhelmed by numbers. There was no other likely outcome but defeat.

 

[Jetronic]

Yes I know, I stated that on previous page. They lost the war when it started, as they couldn't take on the industrial might of pretty much the entire world. and didn't count on having too either.

 

[IndyFan]

It might have been a game changer, might not.

"First time I saw a jet, I shot it down...not very sportsmanlike, but what the hell" - Chuck Yeager.

Yeager also said that if the Germans had used it as a fighter, as it should have been used, if the war was prolonged, the US would have filled the sky with P-80s and would have won anyway.

Still, the 262 was a remarkable machine that was indeed a bit ahead of its time.

 

[Wolf359]

Didn’t really neutralize air cover. It was still susceptible to a well placed .50 cal bullet but it made it harder to put that bullet on target.

If the Luftwaffe had them in similar numbers to the number of P-47 and/or P-51, it would’ve made a difference.

The question of victory in the skies was principally one of industrial capacity, not minor technological advantage, like 100 MPH in top speed. Turn rate, climb rate, stall speed, engine response, armament, and pilot skill all mattered, too.

More than one ME-262 was lost to US fighters in the air. It was better but not invincible and it was not better in every way.

Germany lost the away game in the air early on, and had to play the home game for the rest of the war.

They were simply overwhelmed by numbers. There was no other likely outcome but defeat.

Isn't part of that also using your strengths and minimizing your weaknesses? Just thinking of Chennault and the P-40s vs Zeros.

 

[Krieg]

War does tend to spur technology driven machines/inventions! Werner Von Braun the Father of NASA!

 

[Astro14]

Isn't part of that also using your strengths and minimizing your weaknesses? Just thinking of Chennault and the P-40s vs Zeros.

”Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.”

- Adolph Galland

True then, and true now. The victory wasn’t assured by the advantages of one aircraft over another.

 

[wemay]

@Astro14 ...also paraphrasing Adolph Galland,

Galland, who flew both the ME-262 and Gloster Meteor said the 262 was the best. However he said the ultimate fighter would have been the 262 with the meteors weaker but far more reliable engines.

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

Germany was so far ahead of their time. Just think what the outcome would have been like had they flew these during the whole war!

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I haven't watched much of it but the Me262 had some impressive points but it also had it's achilles heels. The engines didn't last long and they had a long duration before power spool could be maintained and they were virtually helpless against strifing fighters on takeoff and landing. Allied fighters learned to simply pounce on them, and by the time they Sparrow was active Allied bombers had largely run out of large, consolidated targets to bomb substantially. And as mentioned the British had the Meteor online but the US was already coming out with the P-80 Shooting Star. And for all the vaunted "secret weapons", Germany's largest produced fighter at the end of the war was still the Me109 made in large numbers - right into the last day of the war...

 

[97prizm]

After reading alot, and seeing an eye opening documentary recently (I'll have to look it up). A number of military generals and higher ups in the Third Reich stipulated that a large part of Germany's failure in the war came down to Hitler having to order every single thing and group. By the time anyone received orders the battlefield had already changed.

 

[measureman]

After reading alot, and seeing an eye opening documentary recently (I'll have to look it up). A number of military generals and higher ups in the Third Reich stipulated that a large part of Germany's failure in the war came down to Hitler having to order every single thing and group. By the time anyone received orders the battlefield had already changed.

The biggest reason the Nazis and Japanese lost the war was the industrial power of the United States.
Shoot down one of our bombers?
We have 10 more to replace it.
Same goes for pretty much everything else.

 

[Electromotive]

The biggest reason the Nazis and Japanese lost the war was the industrial power of the United States.
Shoot down one of our bombers?
We have 10 more to replace it.
Same goes for pretty much everything else.

You are spot on. The industrial capacity of the U. S. was a big part of the equation for the win.

 

[Tikka]

Hi.
I recommend a series of documentaries called 'War Factories'. Several explain just how the United States Industrial strength was turned over to fighting the War.

Another advantage the US had over Axis manufacturing, was it was not having the crap bombed out of it on a regular basis .

Germany barely had enough fuel for what it did manufacture. The failure to capture the oil fields of the Caucasus in 42 put paid to that.

 

[jstert]

my dad described seeing the me262 in action. he was in the 210th military police co, assigned in 3/45 to guard the newly captured ludendorff bridge and pontoon bridges over the rhine river at remagen. as a 20yo kid he was mesmerized by me262s come screaming up the river, just off the deck, with p51s in hot pursuit, drop bombs, then do full vertical climbs, leaving the p51s far behind in the dust. he landed, as part of the 5th engineer special bde, at easy red, sector, omaha beach on 6/6/44. he always said that if the germans had put the me262 in service a year earlier we would never have gotten off the normandy beaches.