Mercedes moving on from Mobil 1?

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: Ayrton
This isn't big news. As far as I can remember, SHELL has been factory fill on regular Mercedes.

Only AMGs had Mobil 1 Factory Fill.


Exactly. In the US, Mercedes has recommended for years that their dealers use Mobil 1, but the factory fill (except for AMG engines) has been Shell.

 

[deven]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: Ayrton
This isn't big news. As far as I can remember, SHELL has been factory fill on regular Mercedes.

Only AMGs had Mobil 1 Factory Fill.


Exactly. In the US, Mercedes has recommended for years that their dealers use Mobil 1, but the factory fill (except for AMG engines) has been Shell.


My dad's E350 4matic is not an AMG and there are 2 distinct places on the engine that specifies to use Mobil 1. One is on the oil cap and the other is on the front lip plastic covering as soon as you open the hood.

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: Ayrton
This isn't big news. As far as I can remember, SHELL has been factory fill on regular Mercedes.

Only AMGs had Mobil 1 Factory Fill.


Exactly. In the US, Mercedes has recommended for years that their dealers use Mobil 1, but the factory fill (except for AMG engines) has been Shell.


My dad's E350 4matic is not an AMG and there are 2 distinct places on the engine that specifies to use Mobil 1. One is on the oil cap and the other is on the front lip plastic covering as soon as you open the hood.


Yes, and I bet your dad's Benz was sold through a US dealership. As I said, for years US sold cars and US dealers have recommended Mobil 1 as the service fill. That doesn't mean the factory fill was Mobil 1. Benz has had a factory fill contract with Shell for over two decades. Their relationship with XOM for Mobil 1 factory fill has only been for AMG engines. Even the beastly V12 in the Maybach comes from the factory with Shell Helix Ultra in the engine.

 

[deven]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: Ayrton
This isn't big news. As far as I can remember, SHELL has been factory fill on regular Mercedes.

Only AMGs had Mobil 1 Factory Fill.


Exactly. In the US, Mercedes has recommended for years that their dealers use Mobil 1, but the factory fill (except for AMG engines) has been Shell.


My dad's E350 4matic is not an AMG and there are 2 distinct places on the engine that specifies to use Mobil 1. One is on the oil cap and the other is on the front lip plastic covering as soon as you open the hood.


Yes, and I bet your dad's Benz was sold through a US dealership. As I said, for years US sold cars and US dealers have recommended Mobil 1 as the service fill. That doesn't mean the factory fill was Mobil 1. Benz has had a factory fill contract with Shell for over two decades. Their relationship with XOM for Mobil 1 factory fill has only been for AMG engines. Even the beastly V12 in the Maybach comes from the factory with Shell Helix Ultra in the engine.


G-MAN, I understand your point but what is completely boggling for me is why Shell would allow MB to factory fill some of their cars with shell oil knowing that they put "Use Mobil 1 only" stickers on their engine bay and cap. Just sounds to me as a bad business tactic on Shell's part.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
I would like to repeat again - Shell is but one of a number of Contracted FF lubricant suppliers to Daimler AG.

Some lubricants are especially formulated as FF for certain engine families and others are Approved as per the supply specification.

Some engine families have a specific product!

It has been this way for many many years!

 

[Ayrton]

Quote:


Yes, and I bet your dad's Benz was sold through a US dealership. As I said, for years US sold cars and US dealers have recommended Mobil 1 as the service fill. That doesn't mean the factory fill was Mobil 1. Benz has had a factory fill contract with Shell for over two decades. Their relationship with XOM for Mobil 1 factory fill has only been for AMG engines. Even the beastly V12 in the Maybach comes from the factory with Shell Helix Ultra in the engine.

Quote:

G-MAN, I understand your point but what is completely boggling for me is why Shell would allow MB to factory fill some of their cars with shell oil knowing that they put "Use Mobil 1 only" stickers on their engine bay and cap. Just sounds to me as a bad business tactic on Shell's part.



Not really. Shell's contract is to supply some of the operating fluids at the factory. They do not have a contract for U.S. cars to have their logo. I have never seen a sticker that said "THIS Mercedes has Mobil 1 in it."

Mobil has the contract for a sticker, and the current sticker simples says Mercedes recommends Mobil 1.

It also makes since to mark U.S. cars for Mobil 1 because it's simply easier to find approved oil by Mobil for the Mercs.

If a shell sticker was on the car, it would actually need to have a Pennzoil sticker most likely as the new Ultra Euro 5w40 meets spec, but your average consumer is NOT going to find that on the shelf, especially not at this time.

Mobil 1 they can find on just about any retail store block in America.

 

[Ayrton]

NOW, there is one thing I have heard! Penske Automotive controls MANY of the U.S. Mercedes dealerships. Penske's has ended its relationship with Mobil 1. I believe next year, its (Penske's) Indy cars will have Shell or Pennzoil (same company obviously) logos on them.

Furthermore, I have had Penske dealers tell me that they may have to switch to Shell/Pennzoil too because of the Penske deal.

This has NOTHING to do with Mercedes themselves. Only with the Penske controlled Mercedes dealerships.

Obviously, if some of these dealerships move to the Ultra Euro 5w40, it will be a great product too. Maybe there are some other Shell products that would meet spec too, I don't know.

However, there will be plenty of dealerships still using Mobil as not all dealerships are Penske controlled, and it is not yet clear if even all the Penske ones will have to leave Mobil.

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
I would like to repeat again - Shell is but one of a number of Contracted FF lubricant suppliers to Daimler AG.


I never said Shell was the exclusive factory fill supplier.

 

[deven]

Originally Posted By: Ayrton
NOW, there is one thing I have heard! Penske Automotive controls MANY of the U.S. Mercedes dealerships. Penske's has ended its relationship with Mobil 1. I believe next year, its (Penske's) Indy cars will have Shell or Pennzoil (same company obviously) logos on them.

Furthermore, I have had Penske dealers tell me that they may have to switch to Shell/Pennzoil too because of the Penske deal.

This has NOTHING to do with Mercedes themselves. Only with the Penske controlled Mercedes dealerships.

Obviously, if some of these dealerships move to the Ultra Euro 5w40, it will be a great product too. Maybe there are some other Shell products that would meet spec too, I don't know.

However, there will be plenty of dealerships still using Mobil as not all dealerships are Penske controlled, and it is not yet clear if even all the Penske ones will have to leave Mobil.



Now this is interesting as the dealership WAS associated with Penske and Penske was associated with Inskip Mercedes Benz. Recently it was sold from Penske and to another dealership and the Service Advisor confirmed me that it was not because it was sold from Penske but it was Mercedes Benz that had them have a conference call to let them know that they were parting ways with Mobil 1 and exclusively doing business with Shell and NOT Pennzoil OR Mobil.

 

[deven]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
I would like to repeat again - Shell is but one of a number of Contracted FF lubricant suppliers to Daimler AG.

Some lubricants are especially formulated as FF for certain engine families and others are Approved as per the supply specification.

Some engine families have a specific product!

It has been this way for many many years!



Thanks Doug. I understand what you are saying but the dealer I am dealing with is telling me that Diamler MB is cutting ties with Mobil period hence my creation of this thread. I knew all along that MB's don't exclusively come with Mobil 1 oil. I grew up in Europe and have this knowledge first hand.

 

[Ayrton]

Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: Ayrton
NOW, there is one thing I have heard! Penske Automotive controls MANY of the U.S. Mercedes dealerships. Penske's has ended its relationship with Mobil 1. I believe next year, its (Penske's) Indy cars will have Shell or Pennzoil (same company obviously) logos on them.

Furthermore, I have had Penske dealers tell me that they may have to switch to Shell/Pennzoil too because of the Penske deal.

This has NOTHING to do with Mercedes themselves. Only with the Penske controlled Mercedes dealerships.

Obviously, if some of these dealerships move to the Ultra Euro 5w40, it will be a great product too. Maybe there are some other Shell products that would meet spec too, I don't know.

However, there will be plenty of dealerships still using Mobil as not all dealerships are Penske controlled, and it is not yet clear if even all the Penske ones will have to leave Mobil.



Now this is interesting as the dealership WAS associated with Penske and Penske was associated with Inskip Mercedes Benz. Recently it was sold from Penske and to another dealership and the Service Advisor confirmed me that it was not because it was sold from Penske but it was Mercedes Benz that had them have a conference call to let them know that they were parting ways with Mobil 1 and exclusively doing business with Shell and NOT Pennzoil OR Mobil.


I suppose anything is possible.

There actually is bit too much confusion right now that there are 3 Mobil oils. The Formula M (229.5 spec), the ESP Formula M (229.51), and the Mobil 1 0w40 (229.5).

It causes so much confusion for dealers (some of them at least) that two are called Formula M, but yet very different.


I suppose it's always possible MBUSA (which often does things different than Europe) could have signed a contract with Shell to change the sticker on the cars in the future or whatnot.

Of course, dealers have always been free to choose whatever approved oil they want to use though. Some use a Valvoline product.

We just don't have enough information to know if anything has changed or not.

My wild guess is that until I see something more concrete, I'd bet nothing has changed.

 

[HARTZSKY]

Believe what you see, not what you hear.

 

[deven]

Originally Posted By: Ayrton
Originally Posted By: deven
Originally Posted By: Ayrton
NOW, there is one thing I have heard! Penske Automotive controls MANY of the U.S. Mercedes dealerships. Penske's has ended its relationship with Mobil 1. I believe next year, its (Penske's) Indy cars will have Shell or Pennzoil (same company obviously) logos on them.

Furthermore, I have had Penske dealers tell me that they may have to switch to Shell/Pennzoil too because of the Penske deal.

This has NOTHING to do with Mercedes themselves. Only with the Penske controlled Mercedes dealerships.

Obviously, if some of these dealerships move to the Ultra Euro 5w40, it will be a great product too. Maybe there are some other Shell products that would meet spec too, I don't know.

However, there will be plenty of dealerships still using Mobil as not all dealerships are Penske controlled, and it is not yet clear if even all the Penske ones will have to leave Mobil.



Now this is interesting as the dealership WAS associated with Penske and Penske was associated with Inskip Mercedes Benz. Recently it was sold from Penske and to another dealership and the Service Advisor confirmed me that it was not because it was sold from Penske but it was Mercedes Benz that had them have a conference call to let them know that they were parting ways with Mobil 1 and exclusively doing business with Shell and NOT Pennzoil OR Mobil.


I suppose anything is possible.

There actually is bit too much confusion right now that there are 3 Mobil oils. The Formula M (229.5 spec), the ESP Formula M (229.51), and the Mobil 1 0w40 (229.5).

It causes so much confusion for dealers (some of them at least) that two are called Formula M, but yet very different.


I suppose it's always possible MBUSA (which often does things different than Europe) could have signed a contract with Shell to change the sticker on the cars in the future or whatnot.

Of course, dealers have always been free to choose whatever approved oil they want to use though. Some use a Valvoline product.

We just don't have enough information to know if anything has changed or not.

My wild guess is that until I see something more concrete, I'd bet nothing has changed.




I agree. The confusion is between the two specs because of how the products are named. The Mobil 1 ESP Formula M is 229.51 approved which also was approved as a 229.5 but was pulled later because it was deemed that it could not withstand 10,000 mile OCI. Once they changed the specification, Mobil came up with a separate oil, named just Mobil 1 Formula M and they took the "ESP" out. A lot of the dealerships miss this and is how the confusion was born.

 

[OneEyeJack]

This is a lot of talk about oil meeting a certain spec and who supplies it. How far would a dealer go in a oil related warranty claim to certify that the oil left in the crankcase was an oil that did or did not meet MB's spec? Would the real focus be on certifying the maintenance schedule of operations performed and the receipts and signs of owner abuse or neglect? I see receipts from dealers that list the engine oil as say 5w-40 but after some time with dealerships changing suppliers or day to day availability changes it might be hard to pinpoint the exact oil and the spec it displays on the bottle.

I ask this because a co-worker popped his BMW 3 series motor. Something about some bolts backing out on the cam drive or the damper or something and the motor went bang. He did his oil changes at Jiffy Lube with what ever they put in and he did it more often than required, plus the regular maintenance at the dealer. He ignored the oil change monitor and changed it every 3k miles. He had receipts that were accurate but cryptic and the warranty claim was paid and the car was fixed. I don't think there is one chance in h@ll that he used a BMW spec oil, although he now only goes to the dealership, convinced that he was partially to blame for the problem.

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
He did his oil changes at Jiffy Lube with what ever they put in and he did it more often than required, plus the regular maintenance at the dealer. He ignored the oil change monitor and changed it every 3k miles. He had receipts that were accurate but cryptic and the warranty claim was paid and the car was fixed. I don't think there is one chance in h@ll that he used a BMW spec oil, although he now only goes to the dealership, convinced that he was partially to blame for the problem.


Res ipsa loquitur. If he let the clowns at a typical Jiff Lube work on his BMW, then he was partially to blame for his engine blowing up.