I've always wondered this and haven't ever got a good answer. Why do Ford guys hate Chevy's? I mean I thought everyone knew the 350 v8 was a great motor? But I guess some Ford guys don't? And I thought everyone knew the 302 v8 Ford was good to? So why doesn't each side see this and am I wrong in saying those engines are very good? Is there any reason at all to down either of them for mechanical reasons? Thanks guys. Hope to get some good responses.
me Awhy do ford guys hate chevys vise versa
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Because people can be narrow-minded.
Why does someone like the Bears over the Packers? Because their father did? Because they grew up in Chicago? Because their lifetime record is better? Because the jerseys are their favorite color? Because they like Soldier Field more?
Lots of times people lose objectivity and just align themselves to something for lots of little reasons...imports vs domestics, Chevy vs Ford, blonde vs brunette, east coast vs west coast, etc.
Why does someone like the Bears over the Packers? Because their father did? Because they grew up in Chicago? Because their lifetime record is better? Because the jerseys are their favorite color? Because they like Soldier Field more?
Lots of times people lose objectivity and just align themselves to something for lots of little reasons...imports vs domestics, Chevy vs Ford, blonde vs brunette, east coast vs west coast, etc.
Interesting. I like both brands. I just currently like Ford more right now. The only brands that is not coming off the don't like list is Dodge.
It's 88% knuckle dragging and team mentality but the rest could just be comfort in engineering.
One "side" puts spark plug #1 on the left, the other on the right.
The battery location, dipsticks, fastener sizes, and other underhood layout tend to follow a pattern, an engineering theme. Get comfortable working on one and you're set for many generations and models of a vehicle, IMO.
As far as driving, you might agree with the shift firmness, torque curve/ cam profile, over/understeer etc of one brand over another.
I've been "blessed" with cars from all the big three, and some imports, and I feel that Fords handle the best, GMs get the best MPG for the power and are easiest to work on most of the time. Fords get me scratching my head over why they did something (cheaply) somewhat more often. Dodge made a great truck in their dakota.
One "side" puts spark plug #1 on the left, the other on the right.
The battery location, dipsticks, fastener sizes, and other underhood layout tend to follow a pattern, an engineering theme. Get comfortable working on one and you're set for many generations and models of a vehicle, IMO.
As far as driving, you might agree with the shift firmness, torque curve/ cam profile, over/understeer etc of one brand over another.
I've been "blessed" with cars from all the big three, and some imports, and I feel that Fords handle the best, GMs get the best MPG for the power and are easiest to work on most of the time. Fords get me scratching my head over why they did something (cheaply) somewhat more often. Dodge made a great truck in their dakota.
Objectivity is rare these days.
We run GMC's in our fleet vans because of their relationship with our aftermarket Authorized Upfitter. That way we have a warranty.
No other brand will guarantee the same cozy deal. Not even Chevrolet, who makes almost identical trucks.
I am actually interested in the new Ford PU's as they are beauts, but I'll consider anything no matter who made it.
EVERY mfgr makes a lemon now and then. Every single one.
We run GMC's in our fleet vans because of their relationship with our aftermarket Authorized Upfitter. That way we have a warranty.
No other brand will guarantee the same cozy deal. Not even Chevrolet, who makes almost identical trucks.
I am actually interested in the new Ford PU's as they are beauts, but I'll consider anything no matter who made it.
EVERY mfgr makes a lemon now and then. Every single one.
Well, when I`m driving a Ford, I dont like Chevy`s. And When I`m driving A Chevy, I dont like Fords.
j/k of course.
Originally Posted By: chevyboy14
I've always wondered this and haven't ever got a good answer. Why do Ford guys hate Chevy's? I mean I thought everyone knew the 350 v8 was a great motor? But I guess some Ford guys don't? And I thought everyone knew the 302 v8 Ford was good to? So why doesn't each side see this and am I wrong in saying those engines are very good? Is there any reason at all to down either of them for mechanical reasons? Thanks guys. Hope to get some good responses.
The differences between brands have always been pretty small, really. There were periods of time when one or two of the 3 might have had severe QA problems (don't buy a Chevy or Dodge from the ~75 to 77 time frame IMO) but on the whole, their products are comparable. I always preferred Chrysler for their engines and drivetrains On the engine side, Chrysler has always had longer connecting rods for less cylinder side-loading and big bearings compared to Ford and Chevy, bigger lifters than Chevy which allowed faster valve lift rates for better breathing without hurting idle quality- but all that pretty much went away with roller cams and Chevy going to the Gen III and beyond v8 and Ford going to the Modular. On the transmission side, back in my day the Chrysler 727 was just (in my opinion) a tick better than the C6 or TH400. The C6 was just as durable, but was a bit of a power soak. The A904 was a dead heat with the C4, and in my opinion a bit better than the TH350. But it was all really so close as to not matter. Then in the 90s with electronic front-drive transmissions, they all pretty much went to c**p in a bucket :-(
I've ALWAYS engaged in good natured ribbing about how much Ford and Chevy blow chunks with my friends who own them, but in reality I'd drive either one as well as Mopars and be happy. The ribbing is more just for fun in my case. I would NOT rather push a Dodge than drive a Ford or Chevy... I like to drive. I've had VERY few serious problems with Chrysler products, so I've stuck by them. I also like being a little different from the masses, although having 2 Cherokees and now my wife's PT has made me realize just how common THOSE things are!
Toyota, on the other hand, really is the spawn of the devil ;-p
I've always wondered this and haven't ever got a good answer. Why do Ford guys hate Chevy's? I mean I thought everyone knew the 350 v8 was a great motor? But I guess some Ford guys don't? And I thought everyone knew the 302 v8 Ford was good to? So why doesn't each side see this and am I wrong in saying those engines are very good? Is there any reason at all to down either of them for mechanical reasons? Thanks guys. Hope to get some good responses.
The differences between brands have always been pretty small, really. There were periods of time when one or two of the 3 might have had severe QA problems (don't buy a Chevy or Dodge from the ~75 to 77 time frame IMO) but on the whole, their products are comparable. I always preferred Chrysler for their engines and drivetrains On the engine side, Chrysler has always had longer connecting rods for less cylinder side-loading and big bearings compared to Ford and Chevy, bigger lifters than Chevy which allowed faster valve lift rates for better breathing without hurting idle quality- but all that pretty much went away with roller cams and Chevy going to the Gen III and beyond v8 and Ford going to the Modular. On the transmission side, back in my day the Chrysler 727 was just (in my opinion) a tick better than the C6 or TH400. The C6 was just as durable, but was a bit of a power soak. The A904 was a dead heat with the C4, and in my opinion a bit better than the TH350. But it was all really so close as to not matter. Then in the 90s with electronic front-drive transmissions, they all pretty much went to c**p in a bucket :-(
I've ALWAYS engaged in good natured ribbing about how much Ford and Chevy blow chunks with my friends who own them, but in reality I'd drive either one as well as Mopars and be happy. The ribbing is more just for fun in my case. I would NOT rather push a Dodge than drive a Ford or Chevy... I like to drive. I've had VERY few serious problems with Chrysler products, so I've stuck by them. I also like being a little different from the masses, although having 2 Cherokees and now my wife's PT has made me realize just how common THOSE things are!
Toyota, on the other hand, really is the spawn of the devil ;-p
I have had GMs,Fords and Chryslers.And the GMs were real troublemakers.For me,its my experience that steers me which way.And its Ford for trucks and Chrysler for cars for me...and thats all.The 289/302 Ford is a really great engine,the 351M/400 can take a ton of abuse and last many decades,and the Chrysler 2.2 and 3.3 are excellent journeyman engines. I've noticed that there is a heck of a market for GM small block engines...seems very few cars/trucks originally equipped with one still have the original.I find that far more small block Fords and Chryslers are still sitting in their original "partner",whats that say about durability?
This is a bigger question than it seems. Where I grew up in Ontario, there were large Ford plants and large GM plants -- and you made sure you toed the line when your neighbors or friends worked in one or the other. The real rebels in that part of the world drove Chryslers. Now, I have heard that in places like Muncie, Indian, you'd better be driving a MOPAR product. Back in the day, whether you were a Ford or Chevy person was a big thing.
Childhood brand loyalty and being proud of what your father drove. My family were "Chevy guys." Its great when you are a kid. Now i go to the car shows and appreciate each car on its merits. (And your father with the Stingray Corvette that gets to take digs at the Fox-body Mustang for "looking like a box" with "no style" etc etc. Things like that.)
Of course, we get older and we like what we like
Of course, we get older and we like what we like
Some good responses so far. One thing that caught my eye way the comment about longer connecting rods and bigger bearings. What's better about them being bigger? Educate me please
OVERKILL
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I don't dislike Chevy guys. I dislike idiots, and that goes for anybody tooting the horn for any make. I've run into plenty of Chevy idiots who made remarks about me driving a Mustang.... while their tired 305 wouldn't turn a tire on gravel. But that wasn't the vehicle's fault. It could have been a tired 318 or a tired 302.
There do seem to be MORE of these types of people that drive GM products, but that's likely just due to how common the vehicles are.
The guys with fast cars and who know how to spin a wrench will generally respect somebody with the same or similar skills no matter what they drive.
I think the LSx family of engines is fantastic for example. But I don't think an LSx or SBC belongs in a Mustang, or any old Ford for that matter.
We've had plenty of Chrysler marine engines over the years as well and they were very good motors.
I greatly PREFER Ford. That's what I grew up around. That is what I'm most familiar with, and there are things (like the cylinder numbering sequence, front-mount distributor, equal intake and exhaust runner spacing....etc) that I like about how Ford does things. But that doesn't mean I'm blind to the fact other makes have good products as well, including GM.
But to get back to where I started with this post, it is the guys that come up to you and tell you that your *insert brand here* is junk and that their '88 1500 with its "rebuilt" 305 that is oozing oil everywhere and blatting through a set of cherry bombs is the best vehicle ever made and that you don't know *expletive* because the "three fiddy" is the best engine EVAR! Then they spin you some yarn about how rolling with a broken posi on 4 spare tires they pulled their buddy with a 7.3L PSD across a parking lot while he was on BFG A/T's with lockers front and back and in 4-low as if this somehow illustrates their point about brand superiority.
But you get these guys representing ALL makes. I just appear to run into more of them driving GM's apparently.
There do seem to be MORE of these types of people that drive GM products, but that's likely just due to how common the vehicles are.
The guys with fast cars and who know how to spin a wrench will generally respect somebody with the same or similar skills no matter what they drive.
I think the LSx family of engines is fantastic for example. But I don't think an LSx or SBC belongs in a Mustang, or any old Ford for that matter.
We've had plenty of Chrysler marine engines over the years as well and they were very good motors.
I greatly PREFER Ford. That's what I grew up around. That is what I'm most familiar with, and there are things (like the cylinder numbering sequence, front-mount distributor, equal intake and exhaust runner spacing....etc) that I like about how Ford does things. But that doesn't mean I'm blind to the fact other makes have good products as well, including GM.
But to get back to where I started with this post, it is the guys that come up to you and tell you that your *insert brand here* is junk and that their '88 1500 with its "rebuilt" 305 that is oozing oil everywhere and blatting through a set of cherry bombs is the best vehicle ever made and that you don't know *expletive* because the "three fiddy" is the best engine EVAR! Then they spin you some yarn about how rolling with a broken posi on 4 spare tires they pulled their buddy with a 7.3L PSD across a parking lot while he was on BFG A/T's with lockers front and back and in 4-low as if this somehow illustrates their point about brand superiority.
But you get these guys representing ALL makes. I just appear to run into more of them driving GM's apparently.
Originally Posted By: chevyboy14
I've always wondered this and haven't ever got a good answer. Why do Ford guys hate Chevy's? I mean I thought everyone knew the 350 v8 was a great motor? But I guess some Ford guys don't? And I thought everyone knew the 302 v8 Ford was good to? So why doesn't each side see this and am I wrong in saying those engines are very good? Is there any reason at all to down either of them for mechanical reasons? Thanks guys. Hope to get some good responses.
Why does Chevy boy hate Korean cars? Korean cars nowadays are good, well-made cars. There you go.
I've always wondered this and haven't ever got a good answer. Why do Ford guys hate Chevy's? I mean I thought everyone knew the 350 v8 was a great motor? But I guess some Ford guys don't? And I thought everyone knew the 302 v8 Ford was good to? So why doesn't each side see this and am I wrong in saying those engines are very good? Is there any reason at all to down either of them for mechanical reasons? Thanks guys. Hope to get some good responses.
Why does Chevy boy hate Korean cars? Korean cars nowadays are good, well-made cars. There you go.
I like both brands, I just prefer Chevy.
Originally Posted By: chevyboy14
I've always wondered this and haven't ever got a good answer. Why do Ford guys hate Chevy's? I mean I thought everyone knew the 350 v8 was a great motor? But I guess some Ford guys don't? And I thought everyone knew the 302 v8 Ford was good to? So why doesn't each side see this and am I wrong in saying those engines are very good? Is there any reason at all to down either of them for mechanical reasons? Thanks guys. Hope to get some good responses.
If you owned the POS 95 Caprice I owned you'd understand why I don't like GM. 4.3L V8, distributor cap behind the water pump, total garbage. It will be a long time before I buy another GM product.
I've always wondered this and haven't ever got a good answer. Why do Ford guys hate Chevy's? I mean I thought everyone knew the 350 v8 was a great motor? But I guess some Ford guys don't? And I thought everyone knew the 302 v8 Ford was good to? So why doesn't each side see this and am I wrong in saying those engines are very good? Is there any reason at all to down either of them for mechanical reasons? Thanks guys. Hope to get some good responses.
If you owned the POS 95 Caprice I owned you'd understand why I don't like GM. 4.3L V8, distributor cap behind the water pump, total garbage. It will be a long time before I buy another GM product.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: chevyboy14
Some good responses so far. One thing that caught my eye way the comment about longer connecting rods and bigger bearings. What's better about them being bigger? Educate me please
Well, it isn't always true
When the HEMI first began being heavily modified, they (the guys wrenching on them) often modified the block to accept Ford cam cores because they were larger for example. The MOPAR cores flexed.
Regarding longer rods, he is talking about R/S ratio, which affects piston side-loading on the wall of the cylinder.
Basically, the longer the rod, the less "scrubbing" or side loading you have with the rod pushing the piston into the side of the cylinder wall during the compression stroke.
This is also of course affected by the length of the stroke. The 302 has a short stroke and a relatively short rod. They don't wear their cylinder bores and it isn't at all uncommon to tear a high mileage one down and see the cross hatching still in the cylinders.
That being said, there are people who argue that R/S ratio is irrelevant to modern engine longevity and cite examples from Honda, which typically have AWFUL R/S ratios, that last an incredibly long time. Even the R/S ratio on the 4.6L Modular isn't as high as some of the "good old days" engines, and it lasts seemingly forever.
Some good responses so far. One thing that caught my eye way the comment about longer connecting rods and bigger bearings. What's better about them being bigger? Educate me please
Well, it isn't always true
When the HEMI first began being heavily modified, they (the guys wrenching on them) often modified the block to accept Ford cam cores because they were larger for example. The MOPAR cores flexed.
Regarding longer rods, he is talking about R/S ratio, which affects piston side-loading on the wall of the cylinder.
Basically, the longer the rod, the less "scrubbing" or side loading you have with the rod pushing the piston into the side of the cylinder wall during the compression stroke.
This is also of course affected by the length of the stroke. The 302 has a short stroke and a relatively short rod. They don't wear their cylinder bores and it isn't at all uncommon to tear a high mileage one down and see the cross hatching still in the cylinders.
That being said, there are people who argue that R/S ratio is irrelevant to modern engine longevity and cite examples from Honda, which typically have AWFUL R/S ratios, that last an incredibly long time. Even the R/S ratio on the 4.6L Modular isn't as high as some of the "good old days" engines, and it lasts seemingly forever.
there are things (like the cylinder numbering sequence, front-mount distributor, equal intake and exhaust runner spacing... OVERKILL could you explain why this stuff is better in your opinion? I honestly dont know. Except leaning over the engine to do a cap and rotor is kinda a pain not a huge deal though. And the three fiddy part really made me laugh as much as I liked the 350 simplicity it is very true a lot of good ol boys flying there rebel flags and spitting chew everywhere seem to drive Chevy's
matter of fact I got a buddy kinda like that loves his 83 Chevy with a worn out 305 with cut off exhaust and doors that wont close all the way. In its defense it has been through [censored] and amazingly enough it still runs. And it does have oil everywhere.
Small Block chevy is sort of the windows xp. You can get an adaptor kit to put it in anything, and it should bolt up in half a century worth of some GM cars too. There's a reason why computer viruses are written for the most common OS... and why SBCs wind up in so many wierd places, like Avantis.
Because there are so many, there's so much aftermarket support. (You can hop up a Ford or Dodge, too, but dropping one in a third party chassis is not as common.)
And b/c of the smallish OHV package, you can stuff one in a volvo or jag that originally had an inline engine.
You can build a cheap 400 hp one from a wheezy 180 hp for cheap. If it wears out fast, it was fun.
Everyone makes a good engine these days, it's the rest of the car that's falling apart and a half-baked mystery. IDK why Ford, for example, taps the knuckle for a strut pinch bolt that likes to corrode in place. A seprate nut would have been a penny or two in bulk. Every car has this moment... and your perspective on it will change if you deal with it, pay someone to deal with it, or get paid to deal.
Because there are so many, there's so much aftermarket support. (You can hop up a Ford or Dodge, too, but dropping one in a third party chassis is not as common.)
And b/c of the smallish OHV package, you can stuff one in a volvo or jag that originally had an inline engine.
You can build a cheap 400 hp one from a wheezy 180 hp for cheap. If it wears out fast, it was fun.
Everyone makes a good engine these days, it's the rest of the car that's falling apart and a half-baked mystery. IDK why Ford, for example, taps the knuckle for a strut pinch bolt that likes to corrode in place. A seprate nut would have been a penny or two in bulk. Every car has this moment... and your perspective on it will change if you deal with it, pay someone to deal with it, or get paid to deal.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: chevyboy14
there are things (like the cylinder numbering sequence, front-mount distributor, equal intake and exhaust runner spacing... OVERKILL could you explain why this stuff is better in your opinion? I honestly dont know. Except leaning over the engine to do a cap and rotor is kinda a pain not a huge deal though. And the three fiddy part really made me laugh as much as I liked the 350 simplicity it is very true a lot of good ol boys flying there rebel flags and spitting chew everywhere seem to drive Chevy's
matter of fact I got a buddy kinda like that loves his 83 Chevy with a worn out 305 with cut off exhaust and doors that wont close all the way. In its defense it has been through [censored] and amazingly enough it still runs. And it does have oil everywhere.
I can reach in with a 13mm wrench and yank the distributor out of the front of any Ford smallblock easily. It is on the front and very accessible. This makes adjusting the timing easier, changing the plug wires easier and removing the distributor a lot easier.
Some GM vehicles, with the rear mount dizzy had the thing buried in the firewall. Making it almost impossible to get to, and making any of those tasks a nightmare.
I'm a fan of having 1-4 down one side and 5-8 down the other. It makes more sense to me. I don't think it necessarily makes anything easier however.
The siamesed (exhaust) ports on some of the GM heads were prone to cracking, particularly in certain performance applications. It was an old design and I don't know why GM continued with it. Ford used siamesed ports on the Y-block (which pre-dates the SBC) but abandoned them with the transition to the Windsor.
With angle plugs on a Ford, and the equal spaced exhaust ports, you have a nice clean flow of the plugs and wires down either side of the engine. On one side, they all angle to the back, on the other, they all angle to the front. On an angle-plugged SBC, you have plugs and wires butting into each other and IMHO, it is just far less clean.
The straight plug versions like to melt plug wires when used with headers.
But it probably depends on what you grew up around. Ford's tend to be more "busy" in the engine bay with vacuum lines and stuff, and used HUGE EFI intake manifolds that to somebody coming from TBI, probably look intimidating.
there are things (like the cylinder numbering sequence, front-mount distributor, equal intake and exhaust runner spacing... OVERKILL could you explain why this stuff is better in your opinion? I honestly dont know. Except leaning over the engine to do a cap and rotor is kinda a pain not a huge deal though. And the three fiddy part really made me laugh as much as I liked the 350 simplicity it is very true a lot of good ol boys flying there rebel flags and spitting chew everywhere seem to drive Chevy's
I can reach in with a 13mm wrench and yank the distributor out of the front of any Ford smallblock easily. It is on the front and very accessible. This makes adjusting the timing easier, changing the plug wires easier and removing the distributor a lot easier.
Some GM vehicles, with the rear mount dizzy had the thing buried in the firewall. Making it almost impossible to get to, and making any of those tasks a nightmare.
I'm a fan of having 1-4 down one side and 5-8 down the other. It makes more sense to me. I don't think it necessarily makes anything easier however.
The siamesed (exhaust) ports on some of the GM heads were prone to cracking, particularly in certain performance applications. It was an old design and I don't know why GM continued with it. Ford used siamesed ports on the Y-block (which pre-dates the SBC) but abandoned them with the transition to the Windsor.
With angle plugs on a Ford, and the equal spaced exhaust ports, you have a nice clean flow of the plugs and wires down either side of the engine. On one side, they all angle to the back, on the other, they all angle to the front. On an angle-plugged SBC, you have plugs and wires butting into each other and IMHO, it is just far less clean.
The straight plug versions like to melt plug wires when used with headers.
But it probably depends on what you grew up around. Ford's tend to be more "busy" in the engine bay with vacuum lines and stuff, and used HUGE EFI intake manifolds that to somebody coming from TBI, probably look intimidating.
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