Mazda Denying Warranty Claim on Automatic ND MX-5 Transmission

[smack]

Hi Folks - HELP!,

I need some guidance and probably from Bob the Oil Guy himself. The automatic transmission in my ND MX-5 has travelled 46,000 Kms. I had my licensed local mechanic do a transmission oil change/flush with Liqui Moly Top Tec ATF 1200 (Approvals - (Dexron IIIH and JASO 1-A) and recommended for transmissions classified as JWS3309 as per my MX5 Owners manual. Mazda's recommended automatic transmission fluid according to their "Lubricant Guide" is Castrol Transmax Multi Vehicle (Specifications - Dextron IIIH and JASO M315 Type 1A Specification). Note - Approvals Vs Specifications

Since flushing the existing original Mazda fluid and replacing with Liqui Moly Top Tec ATF 1200, the auto transmission now has a shudder at low rpms in higher gears - 4th-5th between 1400-1800 RPM when going up slight inclines - it is gradually getting worse.

Mazda are saying they will not replace the Auto Trans under warranty as the auto trans oil I have used is not the Mazda recommended oil and that the shudder has occurred after changing the oil to Liqui Moly. I had Castrol Transmax Multi put back in the Auto Trans after travelling 400 Kms on the Liqui Moly - but the shudder remains.

Does anyone have an opinion on where I stand. I think changing the trans oil has bought to light an underlying mechanical issue in the Auto Trans - as Mazda inspected the pan - reported metals shaving and said Auto Trans need to be replaced. They then said, because I have not used the Mazda recommended auto trans oil - it will not be covered by warranty. I will need to fight this legally, a new Transmission installed is $11,000.00 Australian Dollars/ $7,700 US Dollars - how could a trans oil with Approvals to the same specs as the Mazda recommended trans oil cause the transmission to fail/shudder resulting in replacement? I have spoken to 2 Auto Trans specialists who say the trans oil is highly unlikely to have caused the issue - but they will not put this in writing/on letterhead.

Mazda are requesting at my expense to pull the auto trans, open it up and have a specialist advise on the root cause of the failure at my cost. If they agree, then they may do something. If they dont - I have an open trans, a $1200 bill and more money to fix issues + another $1200 to fit it again.

Any advice or how I can use an expert to refute their claims the Liqui Moly Trans oil is to blame for the shudder and metal shavings in the trans oil pan would be appreciated.

Note - Mazda Automatic Transmission Model: SJ1419090 - 6 Speed Sports Automatic

Thanks Scott.

 

[Bailes1992]

If the oil you have used meets the specification in the book then you have done nothing wrong.

Sounds like the dealer just doesn't want to do the job.

Speak to Mazda customer services, explain you used a fluid by a reputable manufacturer to the specification required in the book.

 

[smack]

If the oil you have used meets the specification in the book then you have done nothing wrong.

Sounds like the dealer just doesn't want to do the job.

Speak to Mazda customer services, explain you used a fluid by a reputable manufacturer to the specification required in the book.

Hi - I have explained everything to them in great detail and Delaer/Mazda say unless I get the auto trans stripped, inspected and a report made on root cause at my expense, they will do nothing for me. The kicker is, if they then blame the trans oil for the failure I am screwed on costs and a car off the road for 2-3 weeks. They are tying the trans shudder to the oil change - where I think emptying the trans and flushing has exposed the issue. I rang Mazda today and they said its in the hands of the dealer. The dealer says its Mazda decision. I have a Govt Department called Fair Trading in Austalia to address these types of disputes. I am engaging them and then if no luck a letter from my Lawyer. These people are just arsing me around hoping I will go away. I will let Fair Trading know about the game of ping pong the Dealership and Mazda are playing.

I agree with you and the Auto Trans people say it isnt the auto trans oil either. How do you crack these people! Professional thieves.

When I rang Mazda - they said this is between their Technical Dept and the Dealer and I will not be able to speak to anyone.

 

[dishdude]

Why did you tell them you changed the fluid? At 46k km it shouldn't need to be touched in the first place.

 

[smack]

Why did you tell them you changed the fluid? At 46k km it shouldn't need to be touched in the first place.

Well - there is more to the story - did not want to complicate the issue here - it's messy enough. The first transmission in this car failed at 12,000Kms. The unit with 46000Kms is the one now with the same problem/symptoms at 46,000Kms with Auto Trans Oil change. CAr has travelled total of 58,000Kms. Being paranoid after the first melt down and replacement at 12,000Kms, I thought why not get my mechanic who has 30 + years under his belt and did his trade on Auto Transmissions to do a flush and avoid another Trans issue. He is as surprised as I am and he does not agree its the trans oil. Mazda and Dealership are class A jerks.

The replacement transmission replaced under Service is covered by a Part and Panels warranty for as long as I own the vehicle.

 

[Eddie]

I wonder if a piece of this story is missing because it doesn't seem logical to me.

 

[benjamming]

Are you located in Australia? If outside the US, then the laws are somewhat different in how these things are handled compared to the US.

 

[smack]

I wonder if a piece of this story is missing because it doesn't seem logical to me.

If you can explain where the logic is missing that would be helpful. As I said - I did not want to complicate this. Let me simplify for you.

1. First Transmission replaced with 12,000Kms on ODO. Fault - Metal Shavings in Pan - Trans Shudder evident. Mazda Replaced the transmission.
2. Replacement Transmission (currently in my MX5) failing at 46,000Kms after using Liqui Moly Top ATF 1200 - meeting all standards same as Castrol Transmax Multi. Oil flush most likely brining another mechanical failure of the auto trans to light. Mazda report, Metal Shaving found in Pan - transmission requires replacement. Mazda say will not help unless I pay for stripping transmission to find root cause.

Its pretty simple - Mazda are blaming the oil and Auto Trans specialists say it's highly unlikey the Liqui Moly Top Tec ATF 1200 is the cause, as it is approved to same standards as Castrol Transmax Multi.

I'm not paying thousands of dollars to help Mazda find the fault in their transmission.

I hope that helps. I'm just someone with a genuine issue looking for assistance from people on this forum to provide some perspective on the issue.

 

[smack]

Are you located in Australia? If outside the US, then the laws are somewhat different in how these things are handled compared to the US.

Yes, I'm in Australia - and will use Fair Trading to try and resolve, else will engage lawyer with expert witness on Trans Oils to lay this to rest. Mazda can pay for my legal costs and my new transmission.

 

[wemay]

Maybe try getting Liqui Molly involved...

 

[demarpaint]

Maybe try getting Liqui Molly involved...

I would. I would also bet they'll play "pass the buck," they have Mazda and a mechanic to blame. Mazda has Liqui Moly and a mechanic to blame. Good luck OP.

 

[RedSpider]

I would never have told them I changed the fluid, but that ship has sailed. This is not an automatic known for problems.... Two failures in only 46,000 kms? Something killed both of these transmissions and I have serious doubts it was the fluid. I think Liqui Moly will definitely need to make a statement that the fluid is compatible with 3309, other than what they show on the bottle. That would matter here in the States, but how much help that would be Down Under, I dont know.

I think you're screwed either way, this trans is about to die and you're going to have to replace it at your own expense, or fight with Mazda as you let them tear it down, also at your expense. Whats the alternative? Other than finding a low km junkyard replacement....at your expense.

I think most people here will agree that the fluid was very likely not the cause of the problem, however how this would get handled Down Under is possibly/probably very different from how it would get handled in the States, where most people on this forum are located.

Was the shuddering the only symptom? There was a recall for the TCU on some model years, any weird downshifting or any other problems? And did they ever say what killed the first transmission?

 

[xspeedy]

Knowing you already had a transmission failure, why did you take any chances? I would have had the dealer do the fluid using Mazda product just to avoid this situation.

Have you researched to see if this issue is common? And the cause? I would think it is widespread if you had two go wrong.

And if you get it replaced, do a manual conversion. An automatic in that car is sacrilege.

 

[Jetronic]

Standard practice to have to strip an engine or transmission to get to the root cause before warranty is approved. Even if the insides broke through the casings.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Hi Folks - HELP!,

I need some guidance and probably from Bob the Oil Guy himself. The automatic transmission in my ND MX-5 has travelled 46,000 Kms. I had my licensed local mechanic do a transmission oil change/flush with Liqui Moly Top Tec ATF 1200 (Approvals - (Dexron IIIH and JASO 1-A) and recommended for transmissions classified as JWS3309 as per my MX5 Owners manual. Mazda's recommended automatic transmission fluid according to their "Lubricant Guide" is Castrol Transmax Multi Vehicle (Specifications - Dextron IIIH and JASO M315 Type 1A Specification). Note - Approvals Vs Specifications

Since flushing the existing original Mazda fluid and replacing with Liqui Moly Top Tec ATF 1200, the auto transmission now has a shudder at low rpms in higher gears - 4th-5th between 1400-1800 RPM when going up slight inclines - it is gradually getting worse.

Mazda are saying they will not replace the Auto Trans under warranty as the auto trans oil I have used is not the Mazda recommended oil and that the shudder has occurred after changing the oil to Liqui Moly. I had Castrol Transmax Multi put back in the Auto Trans after travelling 400 Kms on the Liqui Moly - but the shudder remains.

Does anyone have an opinion on where I stand. I think changing the trans oil has bought to light an underlying mechanical issue in the Auto Trans - as Mazda inspected the pan - reported metals shaving and said Auto Trans need to be replaced. They then said, because I have not used the Mazda recommended auto trans oil - it will not be covered by warranty. I will need to fight this legally, a new Transmission installed is $11,000.00 Australian Dollars/ $7,700 US Dollars - how could a trans oil with Approvals to the same specs as the Mazda recommended trans oil cause the transmission to fail/shudder resulting in replacement? I have spoken to 2 Auto Trans specialists who say the trans oil is highly unlikely to have caused the issue - but they will not put this in writing/on letterhead.

Mazda are requesting at my expense to pull the auto trans, open it up and have a specialist advise on the root cause of the failure at my cost. If they agree, then they may do something. If they dont - I have an open trans, a $1200 bill and more money to fix issues + another $1200 to fit it again.

Any advice or how I can use an expert to refute their claims the Liqui Moly Trans oil is to blame for the shudder and metal shavings in the trans oil pan would be appreciated.

Note - Mazda Automatic Transmission Model: SJ1419090 - 6 Speed Sports Automatic

Thanks Scott.

You need to become aware of consumer protection/warranty laws for Australia. Nobody here, unless they're Australian, can help you.

That being said you left Mazda an out by not using an approved fluid (i.e. Liqui Moly). So short of bad press, or a nationwide recall you're SOL.

Of course I have to ask has the fluid level been rechecked?

 

[atikovi]

Its pretty simple - Mazda are blaming the oil and Auto Trans specialists say it's highly unlikey the Liqui Moly Top Tec ATF 1200 is the cause, as it is approved to same standards as Castrol Transmax Multi.

Approval doesn't necessarily mean identical. Always use the OEM transmission fluid while under warranty for just this reason.

 

[oggb]

Liqui Moly Top Tec ATF 1200 (Approvals - (Dexron IIIH and JASO 1-A) and recommended for transmissions classified as JWS3309 as per my MX5 Owners manual.

So that means Top Tec ATF 1200 doesn't actually carry JWS3309 approval, but that Liqui Moly has some reason to believe that it meets the requirements for JWS3309.

I'd be very surprised if they cover the repair if you told them what fluid you used and/or they tested the fluid and figured out on their own that it was not a JWS3309 fluid.

This is a risk we all take every time we run a fluid that says "recommended for". Most of the time it works out but sometimes it doesn't.

 

[DuckRyder]

I agree without knowing the laws in Australia, it is very hard to give you advice.

However

I think you have a serious issue, unless you can get Liqui Moly to say that fluid meets JWS3309 (and is approved if such formal approval applies) I think you are buying a transmission. I would get LM involved though, as Mazda is blaming their fluid they could be of assistance.

The fact the lubricant guides says "Genuine ONLY no aftermarket available" is just another nail in your cases coffin.

It would be much the same in the US, in spite of all the armchair lawyers who think the MM warranty act is some kind of Kryptonite to do what you want.

 

[Bailes1992]

So that means Top Tec ATF 1200 doesn't actually carry JWS3309 approval, but that Liqui Moly has some reason to believe that it meets the requirements for JWS3309.

I'd be very surprised if they cover the repair if you told them what fluid you used and/or they tested the fluid and figured out on their own that it was not a JWS3309 fluid.

This is a risk we all take every time we run a fluid that says "recommended for". Most of the time it works out but sometimes it doesn't.

I disagree.

If a reputable manufacturer states their product is suitable for use and meets the JW 3309 applications then that's perfectly acceptable.

 

[PimTac]

If the transmission exhibited a shudder right after the change of fluid then that would have been a good hint to drain and install the Mazda fluid instead of continuing on.