Maybe the most overlooked issue with EVs- personal safety

[y_p_w]

A charging station has no cash or booze, odds are the people using a charging station have no cash, and odds are criminals aren't driving EV's either, so you have less chance of getting caught in a random gun fight... Also you sit in your locked car, so its some protection against random crime. Someone starts harassing you, and you feel in danger, drive away...

As a practical matter, it's not possible to drive away when connected. No modern EV will allow it, and connectors are typically locked - at least with Tesla. So it would require getting out of the vehicle to remove the connector.

However, I've had limited experience with EV charging since June and I can't think of any time when there was anything that looked out of place. Most people kept to themselves, although once at a Supercharger we did talk to a Tesla employee who was up from the Bay Area to offer a test drive to someone in Mendocino County. But for the most part I don't recall too many people chatting it up.

The oddest thing I saw was someone in a Ford F-150 Lightning who parked in a Tesla charging spot (a back-in spot but he went head-in). These spots were specifically reserved for vehicle charging; some spaces have signs saying that vehicle charging is preferred but not required. Not sure if he was engaging in some sort of protest against EVs, which I've heard of. Then I saw someone else get out of the pickup and get into a Tesla, so he was just dropping her off.

That may be something I worry about - the oddball, anti-EV people who think that they're making a statement by blocking charging stations and/or harassing EV drivers.

 

[PandaBear]

EV charging stations are a bit different though. They can be just one or two parking spots at a fast food restaurant parking lot. They can be in indoor garages.

On a recent trip I tried to map out where to charge, which was easy with a Tesla and where I didn't need to worry about the cost because it was a loaner where charging was included. Their locations could be random sometimes. One that I didn't actually use but considered was in Laytonville, CA on US-101. Weird location too attached to the parking lot of Asian Palace Chinese Restaurant in an unincorporated community of about 1000 people.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.689...T20_O2TS9w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&entry=ttu

Certainly with Tesla's charging infrastructure, the location doesn't necessarily need to attract the attention of the driver. The navigation tools will recommend locations. One location I used was a block away from US-101 (which is city streets through the city) but where someone just cruising down wouldn't see it because it's not visible from the main drag because of buildings.

Unlike gas station, EV charging at least in Tesla assume the drivers would have the ability to look on their car's or phone's GPS to know where to find the chargers, instead of street signs while they are driving. They also take a significant longer time to charge than gas station to pump gas, so the space per customer / guess requirement is much larger and therefore it must be lower cost.

To get that lower cost they have to work with places full of parking spots they can install chargers for free, or have cheap lands. They don't need to recoup the land cost by selling drinks, they just need to occupy someone's space and have a mutual beneficial relationship with the lot owners (bring in customers).

This brings up another though: what if a property owner wants to uplift the neighborhood by running a nice establishment with Tesla chargers? Sure the place was dangerous but if there's no competition nearby for charging and they have a way to keep customers happy for a while, would this make the place higher end and drive away the worst customers / occupants with nicer higher income customers / occupants? Maybe that's the plan.

 

[PandaBear]

As a practical matter, it's not possible to drive away when connected. No modern EV will allow it, and connectors are typically locked - at least with Tesla. So it would require getting out of the vehicle to remove the connector.

However, I've had limited experience with EV charging since June and I can't think of any time when there was anything that looked out of place. Most people kept to themselves, although once at a Supercharger we did talk to a Tesla employee who was up from the Bay Area to offer a test drive to someone in Mendocino County. But for the most part I don't recall too many people chatting it up.

The oddest thing I saw was someone in a Ford F-150 Lightning who parked in a Tesla charging spot (a back-in spot but he went head-in). These spots were specifically reserved for vehicle charging; some spaces have signs saying that vehicle charging is preferred but not required. Not sure if he was engaging in some sort of protest against EVs, which I've heard of. Then I saw someone else get out of the pickup and get into a Tesla, so he was just dropping her off.

That may be something I worry about - the oddball, anti-EV people who think that they're making a statement by blocking charging stations and/or harassing EV drivers.

You can't protect yourself against all oddballs. What can you do about it other than having laws that say you cannot occupy a spot you cannot use or do not belong? or call a tow truck to get it out? This is like someone parking in handicap spot to protest, I'm sure it was "cool" decades ago but now people would think you are the fool instead. Eventually when everyone and their moms can afford an EV people would stop these silly acts. Nobody bothers Prius courier drivers anymore, and nobody thinks Prius drivers are hippies now (they are just commuters wanting to save a buck). The same will happen to Tesla one day when you start seeing homeless people camping in one.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I won't stop at a gas station in a bad or unbusy part of town - especially at night. I wouldn't stop at a remote EV charging station in the middle of the night either.

The big difference is I can plan for it. If I am driving a distance at night - and I often do - when I see a Pilot truck stop - I stop and gas up - good till the next Pilot / Love's truck stop. There are 100's of people at big truck stops at all hours.

However until charging stations are far more common - I think the simple solution is don't take your EV for long drives at night. I think it would be inconvenient for other reasons also.

 

[demarpaint]

I won't stop at a gas station in a bad or unbusy part of town - especially at night. I wouldn't stop at a remote EV charging station in the middle of the night either.

The big difference is I can plan for it. If I am driving a distance at night - and I often do - when I see a Pilot truck stop - I stop and gas up - good till the next Pilot / Love's truck stop. There are 100's of people at big truck stops at all hours.

However until charging stations are far more common - I think the simple solution is don't take your EV for long drives at night. I think it would be inconvenient for other reasons also.

That's smart. When we travel at night we gas up at a major stop, well lit and populated. It might cost a bit more but I'm not concerned with saving a few cents on a gallon of gas. I want to make the stop as quickly as possible and get to where I want to go sooner rather than later. We've been doing it for quite a few decades that way, with nothing bad to report.

 

[AZjeff]

The oddest thing I saw was someone in a Ford F-150 Lightning who parked in a Tesla charging spot (a back-in spot but he went head-in). These spots were specifically reserved for vehicle charging; some spaces have signs saying that vehicle charging is preferred but not required. Not sure if he was engaging in some sort of protest against EVs, which I've heard of.

Makes no sense, a new F150 Lightning is an EV, why would an owner protest other EVs? You saw an early 2000s Lightning or maybe you mean a Raptor?

 

[GON]

TBH you seem a bit paranoid about personal safety.

Is that like suggesting a commercial airline pilot need not follow the pre-flight checklist to standard- because jets so very rarely crash?

Your own Toronto Maple Leaf all star massively fit and fluent "fighter" hockey player was carjacked of his Range Rover in Toronto not so long ago. One would think a professional hockey player of all people could protect himself from a car jacking..... theory versus reality.

Strongly suggest you spend half a day researching violent crime trends in the US (and likely Canada) over the past 36 months. It would not surprise me in the least that you revise your assessment of risk for people in the cities and greater metropolitian areas of the US (and maybe Canada- I am not a SME on Canadian crime).

 

[y_p_w]

I won't stop at a gas station in a bad or unbusy part of town - especially at night. I wouldn't stop at a remote EV charging station in the middle of the night either.

The big difference is I can plan for it. If I am driving a distance at night - and I often do - when I see a Pilot truck stop - I stop and gas up - good till the next Pilot / Love's truck stop. There are 100's of people at big truck stops at all hours.

However until charging stations are far more common - I think the simple solution is don't take your EV for long drives at night. I think it would be inconvenient for other reasons also.

Depends on the situation. I remember going on a road trip to Oregon where we (well - my wife really) just delayed packing to the point where we were leaving at 8 PM. I had to book alternate lodging since it would have taken too long to get to our campground at Crater Lake. I think I stopped for gas once although theoretically I could have made it on a full tank, although I wouldn't risk it. I wouldn't have made it on the range of most EVs.

The other consideration would have been if there's charging at the destination. Some national parks don't have public gas stations or they're very expensive. But the thing now is that there's one 16 kW destination charger and Tesla says it's open to the public and free to use. That might be a little bit risky if someone else is using it.

 

[y_p_w]

Makes no sense, a new F150 Lightning is an EV, why would an owner protest other EVs? You saw an early 2000s Lightning or maybe you mean a Raptor?

Not an expert on pickup trucks. But it was big with that huge front grill. Might have been a Raptor. But it was definitely ICE from the sound of the engine. And the guy clearly wasn't anti-EV as it seemed his wife(?) was driving a Tesla.

 

[IndyIan]

Is that like suggesting a commercial airline pilot need not follow the pre-flight checklist to standard- because jets so very rarely crash?

Your own Toronto Maple Leaf all star massively fit and fluent "fighter" hockey player was carjacked of his Range Rover in Toronto not so long ago. One would think a professional hockey player of all people could protect himself from a car jacking..... theory versus reality.

Strongly suggest you spend half a day researching violent crime trends in the US (and likely Canada) over the past 36 months. It would not surprise me in the least that you revise your assessment of risk for people in the cities and greater metropolitian areas of the US (and maybe Canada- I am not a SME on Canadian crime).

Why would he "protect" an insured car? Obviously his health is worth a lot more than the "principle" or pride or minor inconvenience of buying another car. He's smart to walk away from it... "Just let me grab my phone and here you go, enjoy!"

Also car jacking doesn't apply to me so why worry about it? My car if anything, would blend in, "in the hood" and not be a target for anything but scorn... The Outback would stand out, but its not likely to be a target for anything either. I'm sure I could find trouble in Toronto if I went looking for it at 1 am, but the huge odds is that its not going to find me randomly sitting a charging station on the side of our major highways.

 

[GON]

Why would he "protect" an insured car? Obviously his health is worth a lot more than the "principle" or pride or minor inconvenience of buying another car. He's smart to walk away from it... "Just let me grab my phone and here you go, enjoy!"

Also car jacking doesn't apply to me so why worry about it? My car if anything, would blend in, "in the hood" and not be a target for anything but scorn... The Outback would stand out, but its not likely to be a target for anything either. I'm sure I could find trouble in Toronto if I went looking for it at 1 am, but the huge odds is that its not going to find me randomly sitting a charging station on the side of our major highways.

IL,

Thanks for the response. Our thought processes, assements on risk, and life experiences are very, very different. I will close my reponse to you with that.

Stay safe my friend.

 

[y_p_w]

Unlike gas station, EV charging at least in Tesla assume the drivers would have the ability to look on their car's or phone's GPS to know where to find the chargers, instead of street signs while they are driving. They also take a significant longer time to charge than gas station to pump gas, so the space per customer / guess requirement is much larger and therefore it must be lower cost.

To get that lower cost they have to work with places full of parking spots they can install chargers for free, or have cheap lands. They don't need to recoup the land cost by selling drinks, they just need to occupy someone's space and have a mutual beneficial relationship with the lot owners (bring in customers).

This brings up another though: what if a property owner wants to uplift the neighborhood by running a nice establishment with Tesla chargers? Sure the place was dangerous but if there's no competition nearby for charging and they have a way to keep customers happy for a while, would this make the place higher end and drive away the worst customers / occupants with nicer higher income customers / occupants? Maybe that's the plan.

As least with Tesla, they done all sorts of things including variable pricing, although that might have more to do with their costs. When I went on that trip, I could see the prices even though we theoretically weren't paying for it. Several of those Superchargers had 24/7 flat-rate energy pricing.

A lot of the locations I've seen are ones where they took a little used area of a parking lot, but some were in parking lots where I've seen the lot nearly full before. The one I saw in Laytonville looked like the lot might have been expanded just for EV charging, including a couple from ChargePoint. I'm thinking Tesla and/or ChargePoint might have also paid to have their lot resurfaced.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6890059,-123.4835109,158m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

But the topic of Chinese-American restaurants in small rural communities in the US (and Canada) is another topic all to itself.

But on my last trip, there were the locations I used:

Ukiah - at the far end of a Raley's parking lot. This image (today) looks like it was before it was installed. But apparently there's an older one located in a city hall lot.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.167895,-123.2100274,159m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

Eureka - on the edges of their main shopping mall with a Walmart and Kohl's. And it's very much visible from Redwood Highway/US-101.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7788015,-124.188578,156m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

Crescent City - in a random parking lot, but across the street from park headquarters for Redwood National Park. There's also a Shell charging station there.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7941279,-124.2444931,4903m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

Weaverville - in a strip mall parking lot with a nearby Burger King and independent supermarket.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7941279,-124.2444931,4903m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

Redding - at the Sundial Bridge/Turtle Bay parking lot. But this was a prime location closest to the entrance.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7941279,-124.2444931,4903m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

I also wanted to top off in Vacaville at their outlet mall before making it home. That one can be crowded on Black Friday.

 

[WeyounDS9]

Landing at SeaTac airport at 0030 last Sunday morning after traveling for work the past five weeks. At about 0115 I was southbound on I5 driving my (salavage) S500 towards home, passing through Tacoma. I looked to my right, and saw two TSLAs charging their batteries in a larger charge station.

I could not believe it. Who in their right mind would be sitting static in Tacoma, WA at 1am on a Sunday morning? Someone who needs to charge their EV. It hit me- this station and likely other like it across the country, especially where law enforcement is having issues- will be easy targets for nefarious activities.

And for note- I posted years ago on BITOG the only place I fear/ feel exposed from a bad player is a gas station fueling a car. I never saw this exposure for EV owners coming.... and it is a massive exposure and very unnecessary risk.

Many folks often struggle to even track range in "normal" ICE vehicles.
I predict that to be a huge safety issue for the individuals involved when E vehicles are involed.

I said it as politically correct as I could, since I geuss that matters now..

 

[WeyounDS9]

It’s Tacoma.

Pumping gas takes a couple minutes.
Too quick for the OODA loop of many thugs.
But 40 minutes are a different ballpark altogether

 

[demarpaint]

Pumping gas takes a couple minutes.
Too quick for the OODA loop of many thugs.
But 40 minutes are a different ballpark altogether

Exactly. The difference is enormous, lots of opportunities for bad things to happen.

 

[PimTac]

Pumping gas takes a couple minutes.
Too quick for the OODA loop of many thugs.
But 40 minutes are a different ballpark altogether

It’s the chance you take. Traveling on the freeway is the safest option and even then there is risk. There are people crossing the freeway and they get hit all the time. We have our rock and concrete throwers too.

But get off the freeway to get gas or charge and it’s like The Omega Man. It is totally unreal.

 

[CKN]

It’s the chance you take. Traveling on the freeway is the safest option and even then there is risk. There are people crossing the freeway and they get hit all the time. We have our rock and concrete throwers too.

But get off the freeway to get gas or charge and it’s like The Omega Man. It is totally unreal.

That is a GREAT MOVIE! Us more "mature guys" on here get it.

 

[J Dubbs]

Man it sounds like Washington State has really gone to hell since I was there last, same with Oregon, especially Portland. Fortunately the area I'm in hasn't really changed at all. I'm thankful for that

 

[dogememe]

Why would you drive at 1am ever? The drunks, street racers, grumpy cops, and wild animals are out then!!!!
Seriously though, I did find it interesting in Australia that our rental campervans insurance was not valid at night... There it was for animals on the road, and TBH never driving at night was not an issue.

A charging station has no cash or booze, odds are the people using a charging station have no cash, and odds are criminals aren't driving EV's either, so you have less chance of getting caught in a random gun fight... Also you sit in your locked car, so its some protection against random crime. Someone starts harassing you, and you feel in danger, drive away...

You can't just drive away, you have to get out of the car, unplug it, and get back in to be able to drive the car. Just think this is worth mentioning. There are instant eject devices you can buy but there are also devices marketed towards fire departments etc. But can also be bought by criminals that you plug into the charge point and it stops the car. So it goes both ways

 

[PandaBear]

Many folks often struggle to even track range in "normal" ICE vehicles.
I predict that to be a huge safety issue for the individuals involved when E vehicles are involed.

I said it as politically correct as I could, since I geuss that matters now..

Most of the recent vehicles have "range" in the odometer selection, so you should be able to see how many miles is left (with enough safety margin like 1 gal). If you are on a road trip, you should fill up or recharge before it reaches too low of a range regardless of gas or EV.