maxlife atf

[jhellwig]

Maybe they stopped communicating with him because he was being a rude [censored] to them also. After seeing all the [censored] you and him are posting I am glad he had to pay a 2700 dollar stupid tax.

Put this thread out of its misery.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: gmctodd
Found some gallons of maxlife atf full synthetic for 13.00 on clearance. Is it worth buying it all at this price. Apparently they don't sell it by the gallon anymore.


Good price and good fluid. I have been using it in a lot of GM and older Toyota Dex III units (my own and customers) with zero issues or complaints over many miles.
I would snag it all within reason at that price, i keep Amsoil and ML on hand.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: gmctodd
Found some gallons of maxlife atf full synthetic for 13.00 on clearance. Is it worth buying it all at this price. Apparently they don't sell it by the gallon anymore.


Good price and good fluid.


A minor correction. "Good price and great fluid". Awesome in my GM application and soon to be used in a Ford M5OD.

 

[rockydee]

I had good luck with it over the years too. I'd use it again with no concerns. Sometimes people don't put the filter in right and starve the trans for fluid and kill it. My neighbor did it, he tried blaming new ATF for killing his trans, we dropped the pan, and his filter wasn't in right. Costly lesson for him. The filter is the pickup for fluid, and can reduce the amount of fluid going thru the trans if it isn't put in right.

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Not the service manual.


What is the publication date of the service manual vs. the owners manual? Can you post pics?

Most professional mechanics whether it is planes, trains or automobiles, is taught to always go with the lower or shorter service interval when there is a conflict between publications and dates that supersede another cannot be determined.

 

[rockydee]

Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Not the service manual.


What is the publication date of the service manual vs. the owners manual? Can you post pics?

Most professional mechanics whether it is planes, trains or automobiles, is taught to always go with the lower or shorter service interval when there is a conflict between publications and dates that supersede another cannot be determined.


That's how I roll.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: jhellwig
So how did pqia's 3ppm zinc that is within the dexron spec show that it was ashlands fault?




It likely does not. The previous zinc could of been from the previous factory fill.

It is unlikely we will ever know because no UOA was done on the factory fill that was ran
for 23,000 miles longer than factory recommendations did not help matters.

But below is UOA's of DEX III that have higher zinc levels than Maxlife VOA's.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2984359
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...etat#Post706732
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...a_De#Post873940
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...iles#Post886775
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...por#Post1024766
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2360705/2005_Chevrolet_2500_HD,_58120_#Post2360705
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=497245


My feeling is that Oil Changer should have opened his original thread to further complain with a link to this thread.

But, since the cat is already out of the bag, here is one problem I have had with Valvoline's response.

If indeed Valvoline's response was as Oil Changer had repeated (and I have no reason to question it), then Valvoline's response was in error.

Here is why:

One of the anti-oxidants that the ATF Performance Improvement (PI or additive) package contains is a small amount of ZDDP or other zinc ester which "yields" a zinc level of approx. 3ppm to 10ppm of the element zinc in typical, modern ATFs.

Here is a suggested response I think Valvoline should have given(Valvoline are you listening?):

"We have analyzed the ATF in said failed transmission and found the zinc level is not commensurate with our additive levels, which leads us to believe the fluid was somehow contaminated. Therefore, we do not believe that MaxLife was the root cause of the failed transmission. We support our stand that MaxLife is appropriate for this transmission."

I suspect the person who gave this response was sent through another class on ATF lubricants.

An analysis of the oil from an independent company such as BlackStone would have been helpful.

In addition, a written statement from an ASE mechanic on his findings would have been helpful as well.

Much depends on how you approach a company in your communications with them. I know this from experience when I had my blending company. I had to deny two warranty claims for one of my MTLs because it was obvious that the operator had either added an OTC additive, or the tranny had an internal failure mode. In these cases, I had the fluid sent through an FTIR and parts sent to a metallurgical lab. In one case, it was obvious the operator wanted my company to pay fro an abused transmission.

I.E., before you go to a company with a complaint, have your fluid analyzed and get a statement from a mechanic on his findings.

Be courteous in your communications and if the outcome is not to your liking, your only recourse is SCC.

It is not a good idea to go on the Internet and bash a product as the manf. has a recourse to take you to court as well.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: jhellwig
So how did pqia's 3ppm zinc that is within the dexron spec show that it was ashlands fault?




It likely does not. The previous zinc could of been from the previous factory fill.

It is unlikely we will ever know because no UOA was done on the factory fill that was ran
for 23,000 miles longer than factory recommendations did not help matters.

But below is UOA's of DEX III that have higher zinc levels than Maxlife VOA's.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2984359
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...etat#Post706732
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...a_De#Post873940
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...iles#Post886775
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...por#Post1024766
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2360705/2005_Chevrolet_2500_HD,_58120_#Post2360705
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=497245


My feeling is that Oil Changer should have opened his original thread to further complain with a link to this thread.

But, since the cat is already out of the bag, here is one problem I have had with Valvoline's response.

If indeed Valvoline's response was as Oil Changer had repeated (and I have no reason to question it), then Valvoline's response was in error.

Here is why:

One of the anti-oxidants that the ATF Performance Improvement (PI or additive) package contains is a small amount of ZDDP or other zinc ester which "yields" a zinc level of approx. 3ppm to 10ppm of the element zinc in typical, modern ATFs.

Here is a suggested response I think Valvoline should have given(Valvoline are you listening?):

"We have analyzed the ATF in said failed transmission and found the zinc level is not commensurate with our additive levels, which leads us to believe the fluid was somehow contaminated. Therefore, we do not believe that MaxLife was the root cause of the failed transmission. We support our stand that MaxLife is appropriate for this transmission."

I suspect the person who gave the ORIGINAL response was sent through another class on ATF lubricants.

An analysis of the oil from an independent company such as BlackStone would have been helpful.

In addition, a written statement from an ASE mechanic on his findings would have been helpful as well.

Much depends on how you approach a company in your communications with them. I know this from experience when I had my blending company. I had to deny two warranty claims for one of my MTLs because it was obvious that the operator had either added an OTC additive, or the tranny had an internal failure mode. In these cases, I had the fluid sent through an FTIR and parts sent to a metallurgical lab. In one case, it was obvious the operator wanted my company to pay fro an abused transmission.

I.E., before you go to a company with a complaint, have your fluid analyzed and get a statement from a mechanic on his findings.

Be courteous in your communications and if the outcome is not to your liking, your only recourse is SCC.

It is not a good idea to go on the Internet and bash a product as the manf. has a recourse to take you to court as well.



See correction: "I suspect the person who gave the ORIGINAL response was sent through another class on ATF lubricants."

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
An analysis of the oil from an independent company such as BlackStone would have been helpful.

In addition, a written statement from an ASE mechanic on his findings would have been helpful as well.


Assuming the mechanic found evidence the failure was the fault of the ATF.

The short time interval, the described condition of the ATF, and the fact that the transmission is described as operating normally after the several changes make it sound like something near catastrophic happened such as a plugged line or blocked filter.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
An analysis of the oil from an independent company such as BlackStone would have been helpful.

In addition, a written statement from an ASE mechanic on his findings would have been helpful as well.


Assuming the mechanic found evidence the failure was the fault of the ATF...


Not necessarily.

I do not think a mechanic has the expertise to make a fluid assessment.

The best a mechanic can do is to document his findings as to what parts broke and make a statement, according to his interpretation of the failed parts, as to how he thought the transmission failed.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule


It is not a good idea to go on the Internet and bash a product as the manf. has a recourse to take you to court as well.





True, but then again the smoking gun is that Ashland suddenly stopped communicating with him AFTER a sample was sent to them.

That is why I have focused on that aspect of the incident, because it stands out as being notable and I'm sure that O.C. is telling the truth about it.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: MolaKule


It is not a good idea to go on the Internet and bash a product as the manf. has a recourse to take you to court as well.





True, but then again the smoking gun is that Ashland suddenly stopped communicating with him AFTER a sample was sent to them.

That is why I have focused on that aspect of the incident, because it stands out as being notable and I'm sure that O.C. is telling the truth about it.



I'm pretty sure he'd have to prove the fluid caused the failure. Either way if he had such a good case why didn't he sue? Or did he? This has been going on for quite some time now.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: MolaKule


It is not a good idea to go on the Internet and bash a product as the manf. has a recourse to take you to court as well.





True, but then again the smoking gun is that Ashland suddenly stopped communicating with him AFTER a sample was sent to them.

That is why I have focused on that aspect of the incident, because it stands out as being notable and I'm sure that O.C. is telling the truth about it.


It is no where near a smoking gun in my view.

Neither you nor I know the other communications that transpired which may have caused the closure of communications.

 

[cronk]

Since he won't even say what exactly failed after countless threads and hundreds of posts, I think it's likely not fluid related or he'd be shouting it off the roof tops.

His story would be a lot easier to believe if he came out and said, the pump vanes were scored or the 3/4 clutch was burned etc..

My experience working at a GM dealer taught me the three "c's"
Concern
Cause
Correction

Gm wouldnt pay a dealer on a warranty claim unless they documented all these.

What concern brought the customer in for a repair.
What is causing the problem.
What corrective action was needed to fix the issue.

 

[cronk]

Also the 4l60e was known for sudden failure due to the splines stripping out on the sun shell.
GM actually came out with a heat treated sun shell to solve this problem.
These can fail without warning and through no fault of the fluid or maintenance schedule.

 

[Wilhelm_D]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I do not think a mechanic has the expertise to make a fluid assessment.

He doesn't and he needn't.

He is qualified to assess whether the failure was a lubrication failure - scoring, evidence of slippage on clutches, and so on.

 

[06AllAmerican]

I spent 25 minutes reading through this topic. I was brought to it from another topic from OC.

One thing I have learned on this forum will be the oil analysts.

What I did take away from this is, HOW DOES ONE GET THE COMPANY TO STAND BEHIND THEIR PRODUCT? Should I have to get a lawyer to sue a large company that can easily poor house me with lawyers on retainer?

Regardless if we think OC was rude or nasty to the oil company, which anyone of us would have been 3k later out of our pocket, customer service is trained to deal with this. End of story. They should spend the time to make sure of people like OC on forums like these.

I personally hate when I hear that a company takes the easy way out. Vavoline is a household name. Nobody should ever have any reservations about their products and warranties.

Just because the many have not had an issue with a company or their oil products, whats to say you won't when the time comes?