I've found that what the manuf. says is the oil volume for oil and filter change has always been to high. Am I correct? It seems the amount they give for oil and fiter change is really for a dry fill on a new engine. The manuf specs. also do not seem to take thermal expansion into consideration either.
Manuf. Dry Fill Spec. often wrong?
- Thread starter ron in sc
- Start date
- Status
Some service manuals will list both - and dont trust the dipstick as the last word. When I install the rec refill amount in the honda, it reads filled about 3/16" down from the upper line on the dipstick. If I top-off to the upper line the engine balks at this oil level. I just had to remove some oil as my air filter was getting oiled from crankcase blowby. Common issue on these cars.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Some service manuals will list both - and dont trust the dipstick as the last word. When I install the rec refill amount in the honda, it reads filled about 3/16" down from the upper line on the dipstick. If I top-off to the upper line the engine balks at this oil level. I just had to remove some oil as my air filter was getting oiled from crankcase blowby. Common issue on these cars.
so your air filter was getting oil on it from filling to the fill line? never heard of that. Is this an arco only problem?
Some service manuals will list both - and dont trust the dipstick as the last word. When I install the rec refill amount in the honda, it reads filled about 3/16" down from the upper line on the dipstick. If I top-off to the upper line the engine balks at this oil level. I just had to remove some oil as my air filter was getting oiled from crankcase blowby. Common issue on these cars.
so your air filter was getting oil on it from filling to the fill line? never heard of that. Is this an arco only problem?
Any car with to much oil could foul the air filter and MAF sensor if the oil goes thru the air filter from the breather hose.
Need to be real careful with oil fil amount on an air cooled car with 12 liter dry sump. When oil heats up read thermal expansiton, there is way to much oil and it can make a big mess.
In my case I'm just dealing with a 2012 Toyota 4Runner.
Need to be real careful with oil fil amount on an air cooled car with 12 liter dry sump. When oil heats up read thermal expansiton, there is way to much oil and it can make a big mess.
In my case I'm just dealing with a 2012 Toyota 4Runner.
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Some service manuals will list both - and dont trust the dipstick as the last word. When I install the rec refill amount in the honda, it reads filled about 3/16" down from the upper line on the dipstick. If I top-off to the upper line the engine balks at this oil level. I just had to remove some oil as my air filter was getting oiled from crankcase blowby. Common issue on these cars.
so your air filter was getting oil on it from filling to the fill line? never heard of that. Is this an arco only problem?
It's probably MORE related to my hard cornering at full throttle and high rpm. It is an issue reported often at the honda forums, though. Maybe an inherent pcv design issue or windage control issue on the L15.
I have yet to find a filter in stock at a brick and motor store for this car (I want to see if my WOT power loss is AF clogging related).
I did find it odd that putting the full replacement oil amt in did NOT bring the level up to the full hole (as happens on MOST vehicles) On my wifes subaru it goes over the full hot line when i put in the OM recommended 5.5 qt.
To sum up and to clarify, I rather trust the service manual refill volume amt than a dipstick reading. (And i am aware that OM capacity tables have been wrong.)
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Some service manuals will list both - and dont trust the dipstick as the last word. When I install the rec refill amount in the honda, it reads filled about 3/16" down from the upper line on the dipstick. If I top-off to the upper line the engine balks at this oil level. I just had to remove some oil as my air filter was getting oiled from crankcase blowby. Common issue on these cars.
so your air filter was getting oil on it from filling to the fill line? never heard of that. Is this an arco only problem?
It's probably MORE related to my hard cornering at full throttle and high rpm. It is an issue reported often at the honda forums, though. Maybe an inherent pcv design issue or windage control issue on the L15.
I have yet to find a filter in stock at a brick and motor store for this car (I want to see if my WOT power loss is AF clogging related).
I did find it odd that putting the full replacement oil amt in did NOT bring the level up to the full hole (as happens on MOST vehicles) On my wifes subaru it goes over the full hot line when i put in the OM recommended 5.5 qt.
To sum up and to clarify, I rather trust the service manual refill volume amt than a dipstick reading. (And i am aware that OM capacity tables have been wrong.)
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: ron in sc
I've found that what the manuf. says is the oil volume for oil and filter change has always been to high. Am I correct? It seems the amount they give for oil and fiter change is really for a dry fill on a new engine. The manuf specs. also do not seem to take thermal expansion into consideration either.
I notice something similar too, add 4.5qt oil and it's usually too much according to the dip stick. Now I have several explanations:
1) I didn't drain it correctly (not waiting enough, ground is not completely even...)
2) The dipstick is incorrect (notice my dipstick's curvature is different from the new one after years of use)
The last thing I would think is manufacturer get it wrong, this is why:
1) they usually ask owner to add oil to the point that between the low and high on even surface, as long as it's a range, it should be fine, honestly 1 qt up or down should be fine for most engine. Just like mentioned by other post, some manual state dry vs oil change amount.
2) Thermal expansion: good god... don't know where to start, If you look up the thermal expansion of oil and iron/ aluminum, and factor in the volume involved, you would have seen that the difference is small. I did it assuming it's a regular shape, and obviously the engine is not, but we can do an estimation, the math is hard to type here.
Of course we don't know what exactly is the alloy used to build the engine, again we can estimate a range of expansion coefficient base on data published. It's not that they cannot give you advice on how much to put into the engine at different temperature, but this is too much information for regular ppl and difference doesn't change the longevity of the car what so ever.
example: they can tell you the volume of crankcase is expanded by X % every Y%, but since your oil is at room temperature when you pour it in, you have to factor that in also.
I've found that what the manuf. says is the oil volume for oil and filter change has always been to high. Am I correct? It seems the amount they give for oil and fiter change is really for a dry fill on a new engine. The manuf specs. also do not seem to take thermal expansion into consideration either.
I notice something similar too, add 4.5qt oil and it's usually too much according to the dip stick. Now I have several explanations:
1) I didn't drain it correctly (not waiting enough, ground is not completely even...)
2) The dipstick is incorrect (notice my dipstick's curvature is different from the new one after years of use)
The last thing I would think is manufacturer get it wrong, this is why:
1) they usually ask owner to add oil to the point that between the low and high on even surface, as long as it's a range, it should be fine, honestly 1 qt up or down should be fine for most engine. Just like mentioned by other post, some manual state dry vs oil change amount.
2) Thermal expansion: good god... don't know where to start, If you look up the thermal expansion of oil and iron/ aluminum, and factor in the volume involved, you would have seen that the difference is small. I did it assuming it's a regular shape, and obviously the engine is not, but we can do an estimation, the math is hard to type here.
Of course we don't know what exactly is the alloy used to build the engine, again we can estimate a range of expansion coefficient base on data published. It's not that they cannot give you advice on how much to put into the engine at different temperature, but this is too much information for regular ppl and difference doesn't change the longevity of the car what so ever.
example: they can tell you the volume of crankcase is expanded by X % every Y%, but since your oil is at room temperature when you pour it in, you have to factor that in also.
It may be due to the fact that a dry/new engine will take more to fill than one that has been run with oil.
Many oil drain pans prohibit you from draining 100% of
the oil as the oil plug is not at the lowest point on the pan.
There are also many areas in an engine that will hold a small
amount of oil even with the drain plug removed. Manufacturers may use the initial fill as a stated capacity.
Many oil drain pans prohibit you from draining 100% of
the oil as the oil plug is not at the lowest point on the pan.
There are also many areas in an engine that will hold a small
amount of oil even with the drain plug removed. Manufacturers may use the initial fill as a stated capacity.
Don't forget the oil passages - they hold a substantial amount of oil that can't be drained.
MY Mazda CX7 states a dry fill at 6.7 quarts (factory manual) and a refill of approximately 6 quarts. I have never been able to get more than 5.75 quarts out. Problem is cylinder head Vallie's, oil lines, oil cooler and oil passages. People worry about leaving a few Oz of old oil in their engines and they walk among us frustrated. 
)
)Originally Posted By: ron in sc
Any car with to much oil could foul the air filter and MAF sensor if the oil goes thru the air filter from the breather hose.
Need to be real careful with oil fil amount on an air cooled car with 12 liter dry sump. When oil heats up read thermal expansiton, there is way to much oil and it can make a big mess.
In my case I'm just dealing with a 2012 Toyota 4Runner.
I have changed the oil and filter on my wife's 2012 4Runner twice so far. The dipstick is not easy to read with clean 20wt oil. It always appears segmented or smeared. I let it drain for an hour or two on jack stands and level. And then add 6.5-6.6 qts.
I've found that taking dipstick oil level readings on a cold engine in this case (T4R) is frustrating. It always shows overfilled. But if I check the dipstick on a hot engine about 7-10 minutes after shutdown, it is right at the full mark. That is what Toyota recommends wrt checking oil level, so I'll go with it.
Good luck!
Any car with to much oil could foul the air filter and MAF sensor if the oil goes thru the air filter from the breather hose.
Need to be real careful with oil fil amount on an air cooled car with 12 liter dry sump. When oil heats up read thermal expansiton, there is way to much oil and it can make a big mess.
In my case I'm just dealing with a 2012 Toyota 4Runner.
I have changed the oil and filter on my wife's 2012 4Runner twice so far. The dipstick is not easy to read with clean 20wt oil. It always appears segmented or smeared. I let it drain for an hour or two on jack stands and level. And then add 6.5-6.6 qts.
I've found that taking dipstick oil level readings on a cold engine in this case (T4R) is frustrating. It always shows overfilled. But if I check the dipstick on a hot engine about 7-10 minutes after shutdown, it is right at the full mark. That is what Toyota recommends wrt checking oil level, so I'll go with it.
Good luck!
Normally even up to a half qt over won't make a difference.
BUT, there seems to be a few cars that respond negatively to overfilling. Many motorcycles, as well.
If the extremely minor 3/16" over really makes problems, consider going 3/16 less. You are on the verge of problems for no good reason - run it a hair lower.
BUT, there seems to be a few cars that respond negatively to overfilling. Many motorcycles, as well.
If the extremely minor 3/16" over really makes problems, consider going 3/16 less. You are on the verge of problems for no good reason - run it a hair lower.
The Accent manual lists capacity at 3.5 quarts with filter change. The dipstick says 3.75 quarts is full, so that's that I go by.
The Mini says 4.5 quarts, and that indicates full on the "dipstick." If you have ever seen/used a Mini dipstick, you know why it is in quotes. Darn thing is nearly impossible to read.
The Mini says 4.5 quarts, and that indicates full on the "dipstick." If you have ever seen/used a Mini dipstick, you know why it is in quotes. Darn thing is nearly impossible to read.
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Normally even up to a half qt over won't make a difference.
BUT, there seems to be a few cars that respond negatively to overfilling. Many motorcycles, as well.
If the extremely minor 3/16" over really makes problems, consider going 3/16 less. You are on the verge of problems for no good reason - run it a hair lower.
When I first change oil in my E430 after 4 years free oil change at dealer, I siphoned 8.3-8.5 quarts then refilled with 8.5 quarts as stated in the manual. The on-board computer indicated that the oil level is too high, demands that I drained some oil. I checked the dipstick and it was 1/8" above max line.
After a little overfill of that first oil change, I always refill with 7.5 to 8 quarts. No more complaining from the on-board computer.
Same for other cars, I just fill to 1/4" below the full line.
Normally even up to a half qt over won't make a difference.
BUT, there seems to be a few cars that respond negatively to overfilling. Many motorcycles, as well.
If the extremely minor 3/16" over really makes problems, consider going 3/16 less. You are on the verge of problems for no good reason - run it a hair lower.
When I first change oil in my E430 after 4 years free oil change at dealer, I siphoned 8.3-8.5 quarts then refilled with 8.5 quarts as stated in the manual. The on-board computer indicated that the oil level is too high, demands that I drained some oil. I checked the dipstick and it was 1/8" above max line.
After a little overfill of that first oil change, I always refill with 7.5 to 8 quarts. No more complaining from the on-board computer.
Same for other cars, I just fill to 1/4" below the full line.
Check your manual for the specific instructions -- some manufacturers specify to check when cold, some after operation for 3 minutes, some after coolant temp stabilizes, etc.
For Audi, you are supposed to let the motor run for 3-5 minutes, turn it off, then check. (for example)
For Audi, you are supposed to let the motor run for 3-5 minutes, turn it off, then check. (for example)
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked