Major Fire at California Power Plant (world largest Lithium grid back up) Firefighters say best choice "Let it burn"

[loneryder]

To you point, this is what the mountains to the east of Tehachipi look like. At least a third of the surrounding mountains above Tehachipi are covered with these things. IMO, it totally destroys the semi-remote, high mountain desert charm of Tehachipi. In the great vastness of California there are better places to put these things.

Scott

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Couldn't make it any uglier. Poor birds!

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

delete

 

[4WD]

And, because it's nuclear, every single one of them has to be reported to the CNSC, lol.
https://www.cnsc-ccsn.gc.ca/eng/act...ilities/event-reporting/nuclear-power-plants/
https://www.opg.com/reporting/regulatory-reporting/event-reports/

And yes, they employ thousands of people. They can do this because nuclear plants generate vast amounts of electricity and so these operating costs are baked into the rates paid for that electricity by ratepayers.

The problem with batteries is that they don't generate electricity, so any operating costs have to be baked into the round-trip costs of the (limited) energy being stored. This is on top of the capital cost that's trying to be paid back.

But even then, with lithium chemistry batteries (particularly Lithium Ion), fires can and do happen, it doesn't matter how much monitoring or how many employees there are. While there are fire suppression systems, once thermal runaway has started, you pretty much just have to let it burn itself out, which is what they did here, and try to prevent it from spreading to neighbouring packs. That's pretty much been the approach with all of these fires. This is why the packs are spaced like they are, to prevent spreading.

This isn't like a power plant where a series of bad things have to happen in order for a major event to occur due to the structure of redundant safeties and containment systems. Lithium ion batteries can, and do, just catch fire, usually caused by a dendrite triggering thermal runaway, and since they provide their own fuel and oxygen, you can't put them out via conventional methods, so it's usually about just pouring tons of water on them (thermal control) to prevent them from spreading while the parts that are currently combusting, use up their fuel.

I'm hopeful we start working on utilizing other chemistries that aren't prone to this issue.

love to see the equivalent number in EV batteries lost to the idea of storage …

 

[alarmguy]

Well, depends on your definition of accident. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_and_radiation_accidents_and_incidents
https://thewalrus.ca/nuclear-accidents/
Even now I've talked to a few guys who actually run and maintain our plants in Ontario and little "accidents" or problems happen every once in a while. The plants certainly are not maintenance free or fully automated, and lots of knowledgeable, experienced and well paid people inspect and test and fix all the systems all time.

I suspect they are trying to run battery grid storage plants with minimum of employees and lots of sensors and automation, and maybe finding the tech isn't quite there yet, or maybe won't be for a while?

Friendly conversation but it depends on What Country. As my post says USA, not Canada.Also I am not going to go back even in Canada to the 1950s

Let's move forward a few decades. How much of the most recent toxic plume from CA is going to affect humans from the fallout which is one out of many. It's easy to measure radiation. Maybe we should ban lithium power plants until there is a way to measure the toxic effects of accidents on humans. Firefighters themselves stay clear, yet the plume settles all over the country as it travels east.

 

[alarmguy]

Here's an even better perspective because Hwy 58 is in the frame. Hwy 58 is four lanes (2 in each direction). Hwy 58 bypasses downtown Tehachipi, but is only a mile or two north of the downtown core. The downtown core is off to the right a mile or two in the picture.

Sue and I drove through there recently. The turbines cover pretty much all of the NE, E, and SE of the surrounding mountains.

But here's the thing, over the ridgeline you see in this picture and the previous ones, there are many hundreds more turbines that the residents cannot see.

My wild guess tells me they could capture 80% of the wind energy of the area without blighting the hillsides above the town.

Why does it seem that this energy policy and market wants to suck every last breath out of the wind, even if it destroys the visual beauty of the nearby community?

Scott

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Can you imagine any new industry that does this being allowed?
The fact that it does means it is not very earth friendly. However the greenies do not care, it doesnt fit an agenda. They say it's ok because house cats kill more. Cant make this stuff up.
SO read this for laughs, how an environmental group justifies it.
Up to 700,000 birds sliced and diced every year in the USA ALONE and they say that is ok and that number will increase with more windmills. *LOL*

https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/do-wind-turbines-kill-birds

 

[pcoxe]

Lithium fires are not "if", but "when".

 

[slo town]

Had a house right down the road from you on Vine St. in Paso. Sold it in '16. Wife's uncle used to have a place on Ridge Rd. in Templeton. Nice town & I miss the area, truly a gem in CA.

One of my favorite homes in all of Templeton is on Ridge Road, and it's not a fancy mansion. It's what I'd call a "craftsman bungalow". It has been enlarged and made even more cute than it already was. Whoever remodeled that place did a wonderful job. They changed many things and made it bigger, but they kept all its original charm.

Scott

2012 - it was already cute

2023 The trees have gotten bigger hide a lot. There made it bigger but it's even cuter now. A beautiful piece of property!

 

[KrisZ]

Many nice areas in CA are adorned with these ugly and oftentimes dead wind turbines.

Here is the Patterson pass between Tracy and Livermore that I liked to ride my motorcycle on.
The dead and falling apart wind turbines are ruining the area.

 

[OVERKILL]

Many nice areas in CA are adorned with these ugly and oftentimes dead wind turbines.

Here is the Patterson pass between Tracy and Livermore that I liked to ride my motorcycle on.
The dead and falling apart wind turbines are ruining the area.

View attachment 259749

View attachment 259750

This is a fear I have in Ontario, the companies that built them just abandoning them when they are EOL. The only one decommissioned so far was at Pickering, but it was owned by the province, so you knew it would be properly removed.

 

[slo town]

This is a fear I have in Ontario, the companies that built them just abandoning them when they are EOL. The only one decommissioned so far was at Pickering, but it was owned by the province, so you knew it would be properly removed.

How can it be that these "green" energy companies can simply abandon these sites when they are no longer viable? Imagine the oil companies doing this. There would be congressional hearings over the matter!!!

Some aspects of the "green" agenda are mind numbingly myopic and hypocritical.

Scott

 

[KrisZ]

How can it be that these "green" energy companies can simply abandon these sites when they are no longer viable? Imagine the oil companies doing this. There would be congressional hearings over the matter!!!

Some aspects of the "green" agenda are mind numbingly myopic and hypocritical.

Scott

It’s because these companies go bankrupt, any clean up would be paid by the taxpayers, but then people would learn about the true cost of these things. So instead, they are left to rot away.

 

[slo town]

Many nice areas in CA are adorned with these ugly and oftentimes dead wind turbines.

Here is the Patterson pass between Tracy and Livermore that I liked to ride my motorcycle on.
The dead and falling apart wind turbines are ruining the area.

View attachment 259749

View attachment 259750

Idiots. This is criminal behavior IMO.

On another note, I spent thousands of miles training on those same roads during my ultra endurance bicycle racing era. I saw the worse bicycle crash in my life on a high speed descent near there (Morgan Territory). Multiple broken bones and lots of blood. I swear I still have some PTSD over it.

Scott

 

[OVERKILL]

How can it be that these "green" energy companies can simply abandon these sites when they are no longer viable? Imagine the oil companies doing this. There would be congressional hearings over the matter!!!

Some aspects of the "green" agenda are mind numbingly myopic and hypocritical.

Scott

It’s because these companies go bankrupt, any clean up would be paid by the taxpayers, but then people would learn about the true cost of these things. So instead, they are left to rot away.

Yep, this. Often times the companies that own them are a shell of some sort and then that company declares bankruptcy and the parent walks away.

If everything was regulated like nuclear, this wouldn't be possible of course, but that would also encroach on the "super cheap" renewables narrative.

Currently, the Canadian government has >$20 billion set aside to build the DGR and decommission the 22 nuclear reactors we built. This money was collected and invested as part of standard operation of the plants and the amount is set by the NWMO and the CNSC based on the projected cost to undertake these projects, not by the operators of the facilities (though they of course have input in the estimates, since they are responsible for these activities).

 

[slo town]

It’s because these companies go bankrupt, any clean up would be paid by the taxpayers, but then people would learn about the true cost of these things. So instead, they are left to rot away.

Assuming these companies have shareholders, wipe them out first and claw back some money from the executive team before tapping into the taxpayer.

A Nation of Sheep is what we are. A good book BTW.

Scott

 

[KrisZ]

Assuming these companies have shareholders, wipe them out first and claw back some money from the executive team before tapping into the taxpayer.

A Nation of Sheep is what we are. A good book BTW.

Scott

Well yeah, but that would make too much sense .

 

[MVAR]

One of my favorite homes in all of Templeton is on Ridge Road, and it's not a fancy mansion. It's what I'd call a "craftsman bungalow". It has been enlarged and made even more cute than it already was. Whoever remodeled that place did a wonderful job. They changed many things and made it bigger, but they kept all its original charm.

Scott

2012 - it was already cute
View attachment 259728

2023 The trees have gotten bigger hide a lot. There made it bigger but it's even cuter now. A beautiful piece of property!
View attachment 259729

There’s plenty of hidden gems in the area