M1 0W40 FS (updated formula) vs PPE 5W40 (API SP)

[elansprint]

Unfortunately, now that I'm on vacation I've been overthinking oil again and I couldn't resist making another "choose my oil" post to see if there's any relevant information I've missed.
This time, it's between Mobil 1 0W40 FS and Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40. (I know there's a 5W40 version of the M1 and vice versa which would make for a more relevant comparison, but these two happen to be readily available near me at similar prices.)

From what I can gather, the most notable differences are:

• Different base stocks
  • M1: 30-40% PAO + 40-50% group 3 base stocks (per the recent SDS found in Overkill's post)
  • PPE: 80-90% GTL (based on Feb. 2021 SDS which is the most recent I could find on Shell's website)
• Detergent (?) additives
  • M1: predominantly Ca, ~3500ppm in VOA of what I assume is the previous GTL-based SN formulation
  • PPE: far less Ca (~1400ppm) but with Mg (~1100ppm), both figures quoted from VOA for SP formulation
• Pour point
  • M1: -60°C
  • PPE: -45°C

These oils will be used in BMW M62 year round (winter temps down to -20°C). This is a naturally aspirated, port injected engine which only sees regular street use, so I'm more focused on cold weather performance than KV, HTHS, etc. I don't think LSPI is a concern, either.
Based on datasheet figures alone, M1 seems to be more suitable but PPE has LL-01 (2018) approval which apparently includes a timing chain wear test on the N20, perhaps making it the logical choice especially considering that the two engines share a reputation for fragile timing chain guides.

Is there any case to be made for favouring one oil over another based on datasheets, when the other has the relevant manufacturer approval?

 

[Averroes]

I’ve used both for the Merc since they both have 229.5 approval. However the PP has LL-01 while the M1 does not, not sure if that’s a deal breaker for you or not.

Both are good oils, however M1 has a lot more calcium than the PP in its overall composition. Can’t go wrong with either. Try them both out for two intervals.

 

[drtyler]

Either are fine, but I would choose PP Euro 5W-40 since it has BMW LL-01 rating.

 

[Krieg]

Mobil for me. But, that isn't a scientific quantified opinion. I would look at the spec for your application and driving conditions..

 

[edyvw]

Mobil1. PPE is really low on Zinc. Also, I don’t like how flash point drops super fast.

 

[KCJeep]

I agree with you in that engine I'd not be concerned about LSPI, which Pennzoil would be more friendly, but the LL-01 cert would still have me using the Pennzoil in your car.

 

[2EHA]

if they can ship to you just use QSUD 5w40

it's real similar to the older helix ultra\ppe formula

 

[kschachn]

Mobil1. PPE is really low on Zinc. Also, I don’t like how flash point drops super fast.

How is that possible apart from fuel dilution?

 

[edyvw]

How is that possible apart from fuel dilution?

Not sure, but I have seen UOA on N52 (port injection) and in N/S55 and they all have flash point below 400 after 5k.

 

[slo town]

Not sure, but I have seen UOA on N52 (port injection) and in N/S55 and they all have flash point below 400 after 5k.

For the last OCI on our 2011 BMW E90 328i N51 I've used Pennzoil Euro 5W-40. Strangely, that change showed an unusually low flash point - and no measurable fuel dilution. Not sure why this was because I always thoroughly warm up the engine before changing.

FYI, the 31K OCI was Euro Castrol 0W-30. The 47K was a 150 mile OCI of LM 5W-40 (an experiment, look how it thickened to 15.08 from a VOA of 13.82 in just 150 miles!). The 81K OCI was BMW TPT 5W-30. The 95K OCI Pennzoil.

To the OP, I think Mobil 1 0W-40 would be the better choice than Pennzoil 5W-40.

Scott

 

[kschachn]

For the last OCI on our 2011 BMW E90 328i N51 I've used Pennzoil Euro 5W-40. Strangely, that change showed an unusually low flash point - and no measurable fuel dilution. Not sure why this was because I always thoroughly warm up the engine before changing.

FYI, the 31K OCI was Euro Castrol 0W-30. The 47K was a 150 mile OCI of LM 5W-40 (an experiment, look how it thickened to 15.08 from a VOA of 13.82 in just 150 miles!). The 81K OCI was BMW TPT 5W-30. The 95K OCI Pennzoil.

There really is no way to explain an oil thickening up like that over 150 miles. Based on the multiple and repeat erroneous data from Blackstone that has been posted here I'm not sure I believe anything they say. This includes viscosity measurements as well as flashpoint. I'll give them a break on flash point due to the high repeatability tolerance of that test but I'm not sure how to explain all the rest.

Their inferred fuel dilution values are right out in my opinion. It's based on a fundamentally imprecise test to start with then you go on to calculate something from it. Nope.

 

[slo town]

There really is no way to explain an oil thickening up like that over 150 miles. Based on the multiple and repeat erroneous data from Blackstone that has been posted here I'm not sure I believe anything they say. This includes viscosity measurements as well as flashpoint. I'll give them a break on flash point due to the high repeatability tolerance of that test but I'm not sure how to explain all the rest.

Their inferred fuel dilution values are right out in my opinion. It's based on a fundamentally imprecise test to start with then you go on to calculate something from it. Nope.

See my post from 2016 about LM behaving strangely. My post became a wall of text in one big paragraph with the migration to the new web platform.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/unusual-liqui-moly-leichtlauf-ht-5w-40-behavior.251971/

But just to make things easier; the VOA and UOA of LM 5W-40 from the same batch. The UOA had just 150 miles on it. I became suspicious after having to add almost a quart of oil to both our E46 and E90 soon after oil changes. I've never had to do that when using Castrol or any other oils I experimented with. It seems like LM has a lighter oil component that evaporates off.

Scott

VOA:

UOA with only 150 miles on oil:

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Use whichever has the lowest value for noack.

Pennzoil is 11. I have no idea what M1 is.

 

[edyvw]

Use whichever has the lowest value for noack.

Pennzoil is 11. I have no idea what M1 is.

M1 was 8.7%. Not sure now with more PAO. But M1 0W40 is usually in 8% range.
I highly doubt PPE is 11%.

 

[elansprint]

Mobil1. PPE is really low on Zinc. Also, I don’t like how flash point drops super fast.

I'm skeptical that the Zn/P differences are meaningful in the context of a commuter car, considering both meet A40 and many similar specs.

However, I'm now wondering if the more conventional M1 additive pack would be better suited for use in my M20, which is arguably more demanding valvetrain-wise.

 

[Brons2]

Usually when I think about oil on vacation, it's when I'm in a foreign country and involves exploring the oil section of the local grocery store. My first trip to Europe 20 years ago, I was gobsmacked by the cost of oil. Now it's about the same here

 

[edyvw]

I'm skeptical that the Zn/P differences are meaningful in the context of a commuter car, considering both meet A40 and many similar specs.

However, I'm now wondering if the more conventional M1 additive pack would be better suited for use in my M20, which is arguably more demanding valvetrain-wise.

M20? M62? I would go personally Castrol Edge 0W40. For whatever reason BMW’s really like Castrol.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

M1 was 8.7%. Not sure now with more PAO. But M1 0W40 is usually in 8% range.
I highly doubt PPE is 11%.

I know right. I thought 11 was high it must have been an old PDS I just found PPE Euro 5w40 at 6.8

 

[elansprint]

M20? M62? I would go personally Castrol Edge 0W40. For whatever reason BMW’s really like Castrol.

I can only get the 5W40 Castrol around here, unfortunately.

Perhaps you can feel more in your E90 with the higher strung and less isolated N52 but I never noticed much difference between Edge 5W40, PPE 5W40, and the PPE LX 0W30 that's in it right now. (A rhythmic noise at idle from the timing chain area did disappear after I filled the LX 0W30 but I had changed the guide tensioner a month or two beforehand so I can't be sure.)

 

[edyvw]

I can only get the 5W40 Castrol around here, unfortunately.

Perhaps you can feel more in your E90 with the higher strung and less isolated N52 but I never noticed much difference between Edge 5W40, PPE 5W40, and the PPE LX 0W30 that's in it right now. (A rhythmic noise at idle from the timing chain area did disappear after I filled the LX 0W30 but I had changed the guide tensioner a month or two beforehand so I can't be sure.)

I never noticed difference between M1, PPE and Castrol 0W40 in N52. In VW CC I had and VW Passat 1.8T, M1 was running rougher.
I track E90 and Castrol Edge 0W40 had excellent results. I tracked it with M1 too and PPE but never did UOA.
Can you get M1 5W40?