Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
It's not a problem for me at all and nothing is bothering me, I promise. I'm just interested in what "way" the M3 is more refined.
Are we talking NVH? Ride? Handling? "Feel"? Interior? I've heard so many different definitions of refinement I'm not sure what this means coming from different people.
The Mustang interior really doesn't give up anything to the M3 interior except for maybe seats, and the '11 Mustang is a lot smoother and quieter than most realize. It's smoothness has resulted in some complaints, believe it or not, from some Mustang fans. It doesn't feel like a traditional Mustang anymore.
I haven't driven an E92 M3, but I have driven an E46 M3.
Understandable.
Here's how I've understood it.
One factor is that it's a combination of things that usually pull in opposite directions; for example, taut body control and a smooth ride are easy to achieve separately, but very hard to achieve together. Ditto with firm engine mounts and low NVH, good steering feel and isolating the steering from bumps and vibration, excitement with relaxation, etc. When those goals are achieved together, that's called "refinement."
Another factor is attention to detail, not just in interior fit-and-finish but in little things that you're not really aware of but that affect the drive. For example, BMWs usually have excellent visibility (not just of the trees around you but of the vehicle's extremities), very good dive/squat control, VERY safe handling behavior at the limit, etc. This is the stuff that makes people feel like some cars "just drive better," even though they don't seem particularly special in parts.
I think it's just one of those things where it must be experienced for yourself. Since I haven't driven a E9anything I can't comment, but I do not take M/T's word for it. I'm not saying they are wrong, but the possibility definitely exists.
The only thing I found unrefined about the '11 Mustang GT was low speed clutch disengagement, the trans gave a drive-line slack impression similar to my '99. Other than that, I was honestly shocked at how refined the car was. It felt as smooth and quiet (save for exhaust) as some late model import "luxury cars" I've been, not to mention it was strong on features.
I will say one thing about the M3, something I honestly never thought I'd say about a BMW, but I think it sounds better than the Mustang. At least stock for stock.