Lubro-Moly 5W40 Group 4?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Nik

Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
59
Location
Canada
Last year I bought a jug of Lubro-Moly 5W40 Synthoil Hi-Tech(the purple jug) and right below the 5W40 letters, it was like "Fully Sunthetic Motor Oil".

However, new jugs now have "Synthetic Technology" instead of "Fully Sunthetic...", makes me think they changed their oil base
from Group 4 to Group 3, considering what can be called "synthetic" in EU.

I am wrong?
 
who cares? basestock has little to do with ultimate performance.

How does it work per your UOA?
 
Originally Posted By: Nik
Last year I bought a jug of Lubro-Moly 5W40 Synthoil Hi-Tech(the purple jug) and right below the 5W40 letters, it was like "Fully Sunthetic Motor Oil".

However, new jugs now have "Synthetic Technology" instead of "Fully Sunthetic...", makes me think they changed their oil base
from Group 4 to Group 3, considering what can be called "synthetic" in EU.

I am wrong?




yes and no.

liquimoly doesn't import over here there best 5w-40 which is part #1306-1L and 1307-5L. i believe these are true grp 4 and it must have some grp 5(there's no other way to formulate a proper grp 4 oil unless they use mineral oil,like a grp 2 or less for the add-pack,..i doubt it with this oil). they also don't import the diesel version of the same oil which is part #1340-1L and 1341-5L.

what everyone over here has been buying thinking it is there best product is part #2040-1L and 2041-5L(both 5w-40).i am absolutely certain this is highly refined petroleum(grp 3).it may use grp 5 or mineral oil as the carrier oil for the add pack(i don't know). on the other hand,this is still an excellent oil that works very well,i'm sure.

i don't know if possibly in the past,years ago,this was different and then they switched.certainly there are some OLD UOA and a VOA that show,or showed,that this is a great oil with expertise in additive technology with really great results.(they were API SL/CF(5w-40) and SJ(0w-40) back then)

it seems to me that this is a strategy the germans are using for this market over here,but i'm no fool. pentosin is doing the exact thing with there high performance II and so are many others.you might as well buy american oil as any american "euro formula" will be made at least as well.

however,all is not lost.liquimoly synthoil energy 0w-40 part #2049-1L and 2050-5L,IS THE "REAL DEAL",a grp 4 oil and i believe it must have some grp 5,either in the base or as the carrier. there race tech 10w-60 is also the real deal.

don't get confused with the packaging.i have seen all forms of stickers and different words used like vollsynthetisches,full-synthetic,synthetic technology,synthoil premium,synthoil high tech and stickers that look different from one to the other at one time or another.

by the way,if your willing to order a pallet and import cost,they can ship to you any oil they make,literally,.....BWAHAHAHAHA!
 
Well, then I'd be better off buying Redline 5W40 for the same price.
 
Base stock has little to do with performance?? Base stock is a major variable in lubricant performance. Not the only variable, but a very important one. There are "real differences among Group I to Group V oils. Moreover, unlike Group IV an Group V base stocks, Group III base stocks have a good deal of variation among different suppliers and blenders of motor oils. If individuals on this forum have come to believe that base stocks are unimportant in oil formulation, then further examination and study would appear to be necessary.
 
Originally Posted By: Dr. E
There are "real differences among Group I to Group V oils.

Yes, but those differences are nothing like what you see between fully formulated oils with group III to group V base stocks. At that level, it's the whole formulation that matters.
 
Originally Posted By: Nik
Well, then I'd be better off buying Redline 5W40 for the same price.



here's an idea for you.if you want to stick to german oils for your german car,still use liquimoly and purely grp 4/5 but still want about a 5w-40,why not mix it with silkolene pro 4 plus 10w-50?(available over here)

here's what i mean:

liquimoly synthoil energy 0w-40:
KV40-80
KV100-14
VI-181
silkolene pro 4 plus 10w-50:
KV40-115.7
KV100-18.93
VI-184

in a 4L sump using 1L of this silkolene and 3L of this liquimoly you would get:
KV40-88.92
KV100-15.23
VI-181.75

in a 7.5L sump using 1L of this silkolene and 6.5L of this liquimoly you would get:
KV40-84.76
KV100-14.66
VI-181.4
this one would be great for my MB.

check my math.

you can use more of the silkolene if you want it thicker.

also,the first number in the viscosity(the w)is a different test,but who cares.

i chose this silkolene for the example not only because it's grp 4/5 and a top notch oil and also thicker but also because the additives are extremely similar and i don't think any thing would work at cross purposes.they both use high Ca,very little or no Mg,no moly but lots of boron.further,this silkolene is API SJ/JASO MA2,which means a max sulfated ash of 1.2 and Ph of between .08 min and .12 max. i have seen a VOA of this silkolene and it had about 1100ppm of phosphorus,so this is correct.other silkolene oils may have a different add-pack,you'd have to check to know.

plus,your adding extra esters with this mix.

unfortunately,the silkolene is expensive but your using very little.

well,that was fun.
 
Originally Posted By: ourfamo4
I believe that any European company has to list the oils correctly on their sites.

Lubro Moly lists "fully synthetic" http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/usa_2040.html
& http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/e_1306.html

Pentosin does list the same oils between both DE & US sites - http://www.pentosin.de/shop.php?c=214,230

I believe the oils listed under "Fully Synthetic" are all GRP IV products. But I do not know for sure.


nope,have to disagree.your implying that any european company has to label ONLY those oils that are grp4 and 5 as fully synthetic over here and can not label them as such if they are grp 3.....i think not.

in the pentosin site,you will find the pento high performance 5w-40 under HC-synthetic technologies.both this oil and the performance II(a newer version i believe specifically formulated for international markets,including north america),are discribed as fully synthetic over here....but there are only three oils that are under fully-synthetic technologies on their site.

fortunately,when you click on english,nothing changes.however,on the german homepage for liquimoly,when you click on the american flag,EVERY THING CHANGES,...and apparently the rules.

i think it's not europe that's illegal to call something fully-synthetic if it's grp 3,but only in germany. of course,some people say that germany IS europe(no offense) because there influence is that great there,but that doesn't mean they can't use words for which you need to understand the lingo,...or that they can't call something fully-synthetic that's meant for another market and call it so right on there site.

on the liqui-moly.de(german site),you will note that product number 2040 does not show up under fully-synthetic even when you click on the british flag/jack(for the british market),but when you click on the american flag(for the north american market),it will show up under fully-synthetic(2040)....even the msds looks totally different which says under section 3,mineral oil 60-100%....i believe it is the same for the australian market.

in fact,i believe that for the north american market,even the 0w-40(which i believe is true PAO)uses mineral oil as the carrier oil for the add-pack but not on the german market.

...but as the highlander says,"there can be only one",lol.

plus,there is more evidence to more than suggest that the 5w-40 that liquimoly sells over here is grp 3 oil.in any case,it's still good oil and should work just fine.the contrary was never my implication.
 
on the USA website/homepage for liquimoly they simply have the GERMAN VERSION of the msds for the 0w-40(1360)but in english.

on the german homepage when you click on the american flag(NA market) you get the msds for 2049.

this is a mistake they have done......on purpose???
 
I bought a 2010 GTI. I'm deciding what oil to use in the 2.0T. I'm kinda turned off by liquimoly oils. Why do they need to use a different name in the US? Why can't they ship their group 4 oils over here?

I can get Pentospeed 0W-30 locally. It's a group 4 oil. For a few bucks cheaper a quart. I can pick up Redline 5W-40. The Redline has the lowest Noack %.
 
It's such a pain to try to figure out what base stock these guys are using. But therein lies our love for oil and the reason we are all here.

I do wish we could get the GRP 4 5w40, I'm going to see what I can find from one of our suppliers. But till then I'll stick with my $22 jug of 10w30 M1 HM
 
Originally Posted By: Finklejag
I bought a 2010 GTI. I'm deciding what oil to use in the 2.0T. I'm kinda turned off by liquimoly oils. Why do they need to use a different name in the US? Why can't they ship their group 4 oils over here?


It's the same company, differently branded. Why are Exxon-Mobil oils branded as Esso in Canada? Why do they do that?

As for Group IV LM oil in the US, I have a 5-liter jug of it in my stash. It says "voll synthese" on the label. But it may not meet the warranty requirements for your 2010 VW GTI.
 
It may say "Voll synthese" but not "fully synthetic" on the new jugs. Last year it was clear, now "Synthetic technology". Why?
 
the 5w-40 that LM is sending over here(part # 2040=1L,2041=5L) is made from polyolefin petroleum oil with a proprietary mineral oil carrier.

a way to make polyolefin is from slack wax.slack wax is a by-product that's left from refining crude oil.

ok,so it's not a poly-alpha-olefin(PAO,grp 4)oil,BUT it is a higher end type of grp 3,not a middle of the road or lowly grp 3....add to that an expertly done,high quality additive package and what you have is an excellent oil.

so if you have some of this stashed away,be happy with what you have.other oils meet the same specifications and are not made from the same type of grp 3 or have the excellent add-pack.it is an excellent oil if your application can use it and i'm sure you'll be happy with it.

it's just that,i happen to be a fan of grp 4 with 5 just like many of you for several different reasons and i'm willing to pay a little more for it.

the reason why they do this is,no doubt to be competitive($)with the market over here but they are not the only ones.what's interesting is their different approach with the 0w-40 and that their 0w-30 is not over here(at least i haven't seen it)....probably because of what these lower viscosity oils must still accomplish.

don't worry about "vollsynthese" or what every other name on there.

by the way,it's the same exact story with the LM diesel version 5w-40 that they send over here(bright blue bottle with bright red sticker).


.....and we haven't even covered the 0w-30 or 5w-30,lol.
 
Originally Posted By: Tornado Red
Originally Posted By: Nik
It may say "Voll synthese" but not "fully synthetic" on the new jugs. Last year it was clear, now "Synthetic technology". Why?

"voll synthese" means "full synthetic". Synthetic technology means "not full synthetic".

I did not find any full-synthetic LM product meeting VW 504.00/507.00.

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/e_fullysynthetic_nt000605ca.html


Keep in mind, 504/507 call for Low-SAPS. AFAIK, there are no Group IV oils that meet 504/507 requirements. All the 504/507 oils are Group III.

the "older" specs allow for mid-high SAPS basestocks.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top