low milegage but long time, when to change?

[TDIVersys]

I changed my oil one year ago in my VW TDI with the recommend Castrol 5W40 synthetic. Since then I have only put 6000km on the car. Should I change the oil or is it OK to keep going a while? The recommended change interval is I think 16,000km.

 

[Chris B.]

I'd change it at the one year mark...sooner if you are doing short trips.

 

[Oregoonian]

What are your driving habits? What percentage highway vs. city? Lots of short trips?

 

[bigjl]

Change interval on most cars will stipulate a mileage or a time interval. A while since I have done annual miles as low as yours but I have not owned a European made car that didn't stipulate an annual.change in your situation. Personally I wouls only use full.synthetic in a car used under what is considered by many manufacturers, and bitogers, as severe or harsh service. An annual change on your car in the UK would be under £50($75). Going by the prices on here i would think a bit less in Nova Scotia. Never been but isn't your climate fairly harsh aswell? VW tdi engines are well known in the UK from doing big miles. But also known for blowing up turbos if oil changes are neglected.

 

[skyship]

If you use a fully synthetic oil I would not be too concerned about the one year limit and would recommend two years as more reasonable. The VW 16,000 km recommended OCI is for normal service use, so what you decide on in terms of the OCI should be based on the type of use your car gets and the general condition of the engine. The two worst factors for an engine are time at idle and dusty driving conditions and if you have to suffer one of those conditions then the OCI should be cut to one half or less of the recommended interval. If your car is in general use, try changing oil and filter at 10K km and then do a UOA to check if that is OK in terms of wear metals, contaminents, residual TBN and viscosity. In engine condition terms, an injection system fault that causes smoke results in fuel contamination of the oil and any kind of coolant leak into the cylinders is also very bad news and either problem would require much more frequent oil changes to prevent further damage. If the UOA after 10K km is very good and most of your driving is on the highways, then the VW recommended OCI may be good, but it is always worth checking with a single UOA to see what the figures are, or if you decide to use a cheaper oil like Castrol Magnetec 5/40 instead of Edge.

 

[bigjl]

I would have serious concerns with recommending a two year interval on a VW tdi engined car. Turbo diesels soot up with low miles anyway and dirty or old oil will cause all kinds of issues with the egr and turbo. I believe after reading the forum and from.previous knowledge that UOA is a good tool but more useful to the average and above average mileage driver. As they can stretch oci past the 3k mark that is common in the US and move closer to a safe annual oilchange. For higher mileage drivers it allows them to maximise the viable lifespan of the oil. I see very little point in running an oil past a year. Four seasons of low mileage use is hard running. Sorry skyship, can't agree with you on this one. Why risk a $3000 engine and turbo for the sake of an annual oil change costing under $50?

 

[skyship]

The once a year oil change is correct for old dino based oils, but if you use a modern full synthetic it won't degrade when not in use for far longer. Modern synthetic oils do not absord moisture or break down in the same way as the older engine oils and Blackstones labs just had an oil sample from a Nissan truck returned that was not changed for 15 years and it showed no signs of old age in terms of water content or viscosity changes, although it did contain high levels of wear metals due to the 165,000 miles it had done. Not running the engine is the real issue, because if you don't run an engine at least every month it can result in corrosion of the injector tips and even the cylinder rings. There will also be an increase in initial wear factors when the engine is next started, unless it is turned over first to lubricate the cylinders etc. I do disagree with leaving a synthetic gearbox oil in for the life of the car, although that is due mainly to wear metal accumulation with high mileage boxes, but I think the chances of a good synthetic engine oil breaking down in less than 2 years is close to nil. From last post: Turbo diesels soot up with low miles anyway and dirty or old oil will cause all kinds of issues with the egr and turbo. Turbo diesels don't suffer carbon deposits any more than a normal diesel and carbon is only a real problem if either the injection system is in poor condition or the engine spends too much time at idle. That problem has nothing to do with the age of the oil, just the miles and engine hours, although the same conditions that cause carbon deposits also foul the EGR. VW diesels are no worse than most others for blown turbos, but too long a service interval, cheap dino based oils and driver style do cause a lot of premature failures.

 

[skyship]

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/Newsletters/Gas-Diesel/June-1-2012.php The report at the bottom of that PDF is very interesting as it shows just how durable in time terms a good synthetic oil is. I got the miles wrong in my last post as it should be 122,000 miles, but the 15 years is correct. The engine concerned was not leaking oil and is still in good condition, although it did need an oil change!!

 

[bigjl]

I don't think a UOA from an obsolete Nissan is relevant to the situation the OP is in. I wouldn't leave oil in a vehicle for two years. I don't care what oil.is in it. Though as you are based in Europe you will accept that mineral/dino oil is like hens teeth. At least it is in London unless you go to some dodgy car spares shop where they will happily sell you bottles of recycled mineral for under a tenner. The manufacturer is unlikely to advise leaving oil in for two years. One of the few manufacturers that did in Uk was Citreon and that was mainly with stuff like the C2. Peugeot also had similar ideas to attract spendthrift owners. Out of interest would you change the oil.in your V40 every two years? Lots of short journeys and lots of cold starts is a recipe for disaster. Full synthetic is not indestructable. This VW tdi may well be a PD engine or one of the newer 140CR engines. Without vehicle specifics you have to go back to basics. 10k miles or 12months whichever comes first. Remember many older diesels were 6k or 6months not so long ago.

 

[skyship]

I you read my last reply I am only talking about a good quality fully synthetic oil like the 5/40 Liqui Moly Synthoil High Tech that I use or Castrol Edge and I stated that for cheaper dino oil one year is the maximum. I have never read or heard of a case of a modern synthetic oil degrading in a 2 year period due to time factors alone, in fact the 15 year old Nissan oil showing no signs at all of old age, just over use. If I did very few miles in my V40 I would just change the oil every 2 years and not be concerned in any way about the manufacturers one year figure, as that was calculated 10 years ago and is based on the assumption that the owner might use cheap dino oil. I change my oil twice as often as recommended due to severe service considerations but that has nothing to do with the oils age and is just based on a 10K km figure rather than the 20K km figure in the book, that is too high in my opinion. I change oil filters every 20K as the Volvo one is rated to 30K km and clean oil or air filters are bad news in filtration efficiency terms. As I stated in my last post the damage done by not running the engine every month is much more important in engine wear terms.

 

[skyship]

Bigjl: Though as you are based in Europe you will accept that mineral/dino oil is like hens teeth. At least it is in London unless you go to some dodgy car spares shop where they will happily sell you bottles of recycled mineral for under a tenner. The only cases of real bad used oil for sale seem to be mostly in the US convenience stores: http://www.pqiamerica.com/June2012/maxiguardjune2012.html http://www.pqiamerica.com/bullseyestory.html Those UOA's are incredible because not only is it used truck oil, but it is really bad oil that must have come from a breakers yard oil drain pit that sees a lot of blown engines, as the wear metals and silicon figures are very high, although it might mixed with some kind of industrial fuel oil as the viscosity figure is odd.

 

[bigjl]

The last time I saw the recycled mineral was in the mid ninties when I ran a garage. The owner was as tight as they come and used it on everything with little regard for long term.engine health. We have different opinions on this and I am not going to say you are wrong or right. You have thought about your position and that is all good. But I don't know of any VW TDi that specs anything less than a semi synthetic off the top of my head. The OP can read all the various viewpoints and make a balanced decision. But i don't see the point in saving an hour of time and less than $50 to run the risk. Doing miles as low as the OP does would infer short journeys most days or one longish journey once a week with the engine then.left unused for the rest of he week. I wouldn't run your V40 or the Volvo 440/460, Renault 19 RTdt or Laguna that had the same engine for that many months on the same oil either. I just don't see the point. Why run the risk. I know a lot of private hire drivers in London that have done huge miles in VW TDis, not recent ones which have some issues, and though mileage is high as apposed to low mileage. They are both severe service situations. The OP may get away with a bi-annual change. But I see no point in taking the risk to save a few quid and an hour of time. I see the point of extending drains in high daily mileage situations. But not in low mileage situations. There doesn't seem to be many of the PSA group vehicles with the 24 month oil.changes running around these days. Plenty of Renaults and Fords of the same era that specified annual changes. I have no data to put up. Just the facts as I see them. Make your own mind up about where all the low mileage annual oil change interval.cars have gone as they were top sellers back in the day.

 

[Jim Allen]

Oil can't tell time. If it's left in the crankcase in moderately good condition, it doesn't deteriorate. The caveats are: 1) When the engine is run, it's brought up to full oil temp and maintained at that temp for as lengthy a period of time as possible (the exact time interval is a subject for debate but in the many previous discussions on this, feel free to search, most could agree on around 15-30 minutes minimum). Heating the oil and keeping it hot long enough to bake out moisture and fuel to put the oil back into a state where the additives have little to do while the oil waits for the next run. 2) The vehicle is stored in moderately climate stable, temperature stable conditions. Inside an enclosed garage usually meets this criteria. Wide changes in temperature and high humidity would be cause for concern due to condensation. I have been running mileage only intervals for some time, verified by UOAs for oil condition (feel free to search my posts). Our car (Honda Accord) generally runs about 18 months. The gas Ford pickup, about the same but going up due to a recent bypass oil filtration system. The diesel Ford pickup is about two years, plus, but going up due to the recent addition of a bypass oil filtration system. My small tractor (38 hp Ford) is two years. The big tractor (100hp Farmall) is up to three years, with the one three year interval posted here. In short, in my particular situation, the oil showed no deterioration due time. and looked like ordinary oil would look at the end of the particular mile/hours interval. There are other UOAs here that show the same thing, but again I stress, this doesn't work in all situations. I verified my intervals along the way to assure efficacy and would recommend the same to anyone considering this past a year. Oh, and all these oils were mineral or syn blend (with one exception) because I don't go the syn route generally. Seems to me, a year for any oil is a breeze and two years very likely. Three is very doable. Beyond that.. who knows. I think it's doable too but the peripheral issues are a concern, such as filter viability (can always change the filters). I guess I'll find out and report back.

 

[CATERHAM]

I agree with Jim, time is not much of an issue if the oil is brought up to temperature most of the time time the engine is run, and every time in the winter months. If you're conscientious about doing that then two years should be no problem at all. At two years you could have a UOA done to see if you can rely entirely on mileage alone for the way you operate your VW.

 

[bigjl]

My primary concern would be the climate in Nova Scotia which is where the OP is located according to their details shown with their post. I have baswd my opinion on the fact I reckon they do lots of short trips as a distinct possibility. VW tdi's have been shown to dislike lack.of oil changes. As such I stand by my worst case scenario suggestion of an annual change. However one point not mentioned and possibly relevant if money saving is relevant. An annual change with full synthetic but only change the filter every 24 months. Still seems strange how all those PSA group cars on 24 month oil.changes seem to have dissappeared from UK roads. Funnily enough the older ones from PSA group that had 6k mile changes or annual changes at most seem to still be kicking about in fair numbers. Also talk of other forum members UOA is interesting but only really relevant to them.and those using a vehicle in very similar conditions. Perhaps if the OP keels there car in a heated garage and uses a webasto pre heater I might recommend 24 months. Perhaps I am a bit paranoid or superstitious about the annual change in the way a lot of Americans seem to be with the 3k interval that seems to have been the norm.for many years. Perhaps the OP can post up some more relevant info about usage to assist the debate?

 

[skyship]

Nova Scotia is not such a bad place for an engine and I doubt very much that many cars there could be classed as subject to severe service useage. The reason Nova Scotia is OK, is that the air is clean, traffic jams are rare and dirty air or time at idle are the two biggest unavoidable engine oil killers. In fact if you read the Mobil 1 terms for their extended life oil or filter guarantees they are the only two conditions that are regarded as severe service. I used to regards multiple stop starts as severe service, but in reality my own UOA has shown half the wear metals and no contamination in comparison with the average figures, so it is not such a killer as I first thought. The Volvo recommended service interval of 20K km for the V40 1.9TD is perfectly OK for most folks and even in my case the UOA results prove 15K would be good even with the taxi like life my diesel has to suffer. The ultimate bad place for an engine has to be a desert city which has lots of sand storms and traffic jams, BUT has clear skies at night to add some initial cold start wear factors. That would result in some real interesting UOA's with plenty of Silicon, wear metals and even a chance for some fuel contamination. I would recommend 5K km instead of 20K km oil & filter changes in such a hostile location, but if a car was not used much, I still would not be concerned over the age of the oil and would set the time limit at 2 years. If you own a VW TDI I would take a good look at their forums and the subject of premature cam wear, as some of their engines seem to use steel that likes more Zinc anti wear compounds than most engines and it might be worth checking to see what is the best oil type or even if the VW engine gurus are using Zinc additives to good effect. The choice of viscosity is also critical as some of the VW TDI's seem to prefer 5/40 rather than the 5/30 that VW have listed for some fairly odd reasons.

 

[skyship]

http://green.autoblog.com/2010/11/10/chevy-volts-oil-change-interval-maxes-out-at-2-years/ Looks like GM think 2 years is OK for a good quality approved oil, if you don't clock up many engine hours.

 

[bigjl]

I don't think a Chevy Volt is a viable comparison. The engine in the Volt is not connected to the engine and is purely there to act as a generator to charge up the batteries. There is also. The point to consider the actual length and terms of a new car warranty. Most are three years. So what is the chance of engine wear being problematic in 3 low mileage years? Next to none. Does doing extra OC's invalidate the warranty? No. Is an engine cheaper than a $30/40 OC? No. Sometimes best practice is different to minimum required to conform to warranty conditions. The purpose of minimum warranty specs is to show the least amount of maintenance needed to get through the period of cover. Not what is the best maintenance schedule to ensure long term reliability of the vehicle. Some may not agree and that is fine. But doing an annual rather than biannual OC is better for the vehicles long term mechanical health.

 

[skyship]

http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_224.pdf It's not just the Chevy volt that says 2 years is OK, both VW and Audi have now switched to 2 year maximum oil change intervals if you are using a fully synthetic oil. Some of the big rigs that use bypass oil filters don't change their oil for years, as modern engines are much more tightly sealed and modern oils don't degrade at anything like the rate of the old dinosaur ones.

Originally Posted By: bigjl

I don't think a Chevy Volt is a viable comparison. The engine in the Volt is not connected to the engine and is purely there to act as a generator to charge up the batteries. There is also. The point to consider the actual length and terms of a new car warranty. Most are three years. So what is the chance of engine wear being problematic in 3 low mileage years? Next to none. Does doing extra OC's invalidate the warranty? No. Is an engine cheaper than a $30/40 OC? No. Sometimes best practice is different to minimum required to conform to warranty conditions. The purpose of minimum warranty specs is to show the least amount of maintenance needed to get through the period of cover. Not what is the best maintenance schedule to ensure long term reliability of the vehicle. Some may not agree and that is fine. But doing an annual rather than biannual OC is better for the vehicles long term mechanical health.

 

[fpracha]

Originally Posted By: skyship

The once a year oil change is correct for old dino based oils, but if you use a modern full synthetic it won't degrade when not in use for far longer.

By modern full synthetics are you imlpying PAO + Ester formula oils , or even Grp 3 oils would be fine for this extended service interval of 2 years?