Looting GM in Flint

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Motor City..What's Left
Since I was a kid in the seventies I've been reading about Flint....The strikes, the walk outs, the open hostility...IMO, easily the most UAW supportive town I know in Michigan. Of course the fatman documented his simplistic view of why GM left Flint to decay back in the 80's. They were so entrenched there that even after they closed multiple plants, they still had/have plants there to this day...Buick City was mammoth, the GM presence in Flint was overwhelming...Heck they even had a college there, the General Motors Institute...now operated as Kettering University. How things have devolved......


http://www.detnews.com/article/20100915/AUTO01/9150388


"So far, the situation at Flint North has been the messiest.

The complex is the last vestige of the Buick City manufacturing center that in the 1980s was among the largest automotive production sites in the world. The six plants at Flint North had been phased out by GM in stages.

Ownership of Flint North was ceded to Motors Liquidation in July 2009, although in a special arrangement, GM kept making pistons and other engine parts at one of the factories. The empty plants were essentially abandoned in their as-is condition on their last day of production.

"They still have personal goods on the table," said Swanson of the sheriff's department. "There's still ceiling fans going."

Shortly afterward, thieves began to strip copper -- used in heating, cooling and other systems -- from one of the nearby vacant plants. Authorities said that a ring of thieves hit the building night after night over three months, taking out more than 150,000 pounds of copper.

The gang would load the metal on flatbed railroad cars -- owned and formerly used by GM -- and roll the cars to a hole in a fence, where the copper was transferred to trucks and then sold to scrap dealers.

In March, authorities arrested 11 people and estimated the value of the stolen copper at more than $1 million.

"They were trying to steal every piece of copper that they could," said the Genesee County prosecutor, David S. Leyton."
 
Is GM planning to return to this plant? No? Then what are they complaining about? If GM wanted this copper they should have spent a few million of dollars to disassemble the plant into pieces and other useful materials which they could sell afterwards.

As weird and as sad as it sounds I think that those guys are just doing recycling of some sort. It's like selling pepsi cans to a recycling plant.
 
Originally Posted By: unixguru


As weird and as sad as it sounds I think that those guys are just doing recycling of some sort. It's like selling pepsi cans to a recycling plant.


So, I'm guessing you wouldnt mind me coming into your house in the wee hours and taking your returnable soda cans then right? I intend to recycle them after all, whats the harm?

You might not be aware, but if the plant cant be sold to a buyer who wants the structure as is for future use...it is typical to sell the building and scraps to scrappers that recycle all of that material. It's not as if there was no value to this stuff, thats why they were stealing it. And theft is exactly what it is.
 
I'm seriously picturing a big shootout or something like that in the near future...it's that scary.


I'd rather be in downtown detriot than Flint....
 
Ross Perot said it best when running for president: "If we pass NAFTA, all you will hear is a giant sucking sound as all the jobs leave America". No more profound words have been spoken.
The other day I drove from downtown Cleveland about 100 blocks East towards the Cleveland Clinic, and all I saw were abandoned factories. Very very sad.
 
Originally Posted By: scudpilot
Ross Perot said it best when running for president: "If we pass NAFTA, all you will hear is a giant sucking sound as all the jobs leave America". No more profound words have been spoken.
The other day I drove from downtown Cleveland about 100 blocks East towards the Cleveland Clinic, and all I saw were abandoned factories. Very very sad.


But hey, you can just visit China to see it all in motion again! Minus the unions and safe work environment of course... And decent wages and... yeah.
 
Yea, the situation in Flint is pretty sad. The other day I heard there are packs of wild dogs that feed on the street people who are drunk, something like 50 street people a year are eaten by these packs of wild dogs in Flint. Its like that movie Wolfen.

As far as GM letting these plants decay, that is sad as well because of the way the bankruptcy was handled these plants could have been transferred under settlement to secure bondholders and there would have been a chance to start them back up again. Instead, the corrupt GM management team, hid behind the government protection to prevent secured debt holders from foreclosing on some of their assets. At the least if GM would have allowed these plants to be disposed of in a proper manner, scrap metal and other assets would have been taken out an sold to raise money for the bondholders.
 
I believe a large portion of Motors Liquidation Co is in fact owned by the former stock and bond holders. It wont matter though, once the costs of remediation and existing litigation are settled, there will be nothing left for the former bond/stock holders.

And the plan is to do just as you suggest, they will either sell the sites for further development or scrap the buildings they cant sell and then try and either develop or sell the land.

https://www.motorsliquidation.com/

"None of the publicly owned stocks or bonds issued by the former General Motors Corporation, including its common stock formerly traded as "GM", are or will become securities in the General Motors Company ("new GM"), which is an independent company. All of these securities relate to Motors Liquidation Company and will be treated in accordance with the provisions of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code and the rulings of the Bankruptcy Court.

Management continues to remind investors of its strong belief that there will be no value for the common stockholders in the bankruptcy liquidation process, even under the most optimistic of scenarios. Stockholders of a company in chapter 11 generally receive value only if all claims of the company's secured and unsecured creditors are fully satisfied. In this case, management strongly believes all such claims will not be fully satisfied, leading to its conclusion that the common stock will have no value. "

A list of properties they have offered on the market....

https://www.motorsliquidation.com/PropertyList.aspx


A link to the current investment scenario...Basically the way it went was General Motors Corp changed its name to Motors Liquidation Co, then MLC sold the good assets to the new GM, General Motors Company. While the stock and bond holders were left with ownership of Motors Liquidation and all the toxic assets.

https://www.motorsliquidation.com/StockholderInformation.aspx
 
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Interesting info in these faq found at the Motors Liquidation site......

https://www.motorsliquidation.com/FAQDocuments.aspx


Also, keep in mind the secured bond holders received a 10% stake in the new GM Company. Motors Liquidation will hold those shares when the IPO goes down and the secured bondholders will get at least some value from that share. But the unsecured bondholders and the common stock holders will still be left with nothing, most likely.
 
Originally Posted By: unixguru
Is GM planning to return to this plant? No? Then what are they complaining about?


No matter how you spin it, it's theft and it's wrong.

Originally Posted By: unixguru
As weird and as sad as it sounds I think that those guys are just doing recycling of some sort. It's like selling pepsi cans to a recycling plant.


What an interesting perspective. Someone steals something that doesn't belong to them, and the action is supported because it's perceived as "recycling of some sort". That view leaves me shaking my head in amazement.
 
Originally Posted By: daves87rs
I'm seriously picturing a big shootout or something like that in the near future...it's that scary.
I'd rather be in downtown detriot than Flint....

I think that is what it needs unfortunately. That, or an A-bomb! and I live about 40 minutes north of there.
 
Originally Posted By: unixguru
Is GM planning to return to this plant? No? Then what are they complaining about? If GM wanted this copper they should have spent a few million of dollars to disassemble the plant into pieces and other useful materials which they could sell afterwards.


Probably a bunch of unhappy tax payers trying to recoup some of their wasted tax dollars and I see nothing wrong with that, just like the old soda cans being recycled. The greedy Unions are 100% responsible for the mess they caused.

What so sad about an abandoned plant ?
The fact that GM allowed the UAW to force them near the brink of bankruptcy and the shut down of plants and thousands of layoffs.

Manufacturing in places like Michigan are dead for many good reasons..... and I don't feel sorry for them one bit.
 
Quote:
Law enforcement officials say thieves have stripped tons of copper from the plants in Flint over the past year, but only last month, after shots were fired at an unarmed security guard, did off-duty sheriff deputies get hired to patrol the area. Two nights later, someone fired at one of the deputies as well.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detnews.com/article/20100915/AUTO01/9150388#ixzz0zthoEcYS


Yeah these thieves are just good guys shooting at people
smirk2.gif
.
 
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette

Probably a bunch of unhappy tax payers trying to recoup some of their wasted tax dollars and I see nothing wrong with that


Unhappy tax payers? No, more likely drug addicts and gang members who have likely never paid anything but a little sales tax in their lives!

Professional recyclers and scrapers don't break into old GM plants and strip them of copper.
 
Yeah these theives are not doing anyone any favors. I'd bet a lot of this recycled copper ends up in China (where everything is made now) to come back to the US as marked up products.
 
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette


Manufacturing in places like Michigan are dead for many good reasons..... and I don't feel sorry for them one bit.


Maybe the people in the Northern Rust Belt should take comments like these to heart.
Maybe we should remember comments like this one the next time our tax dollars go to rebuild peoples houses when the next big Hurricane comes through.

Tell me Mr Vette....when was the last time Michigan had to beg for billions of dollars to bail out homeowners that live in a flood plain or live below sea level? When was the last time the Federal government had to spend almost 20 billion rebuilding our levies and dams? When will that money get repaid...answer....NEVER

Next time you people living in Hurricane states suffer a huge loss, I'll remember you and I wont feel sorry for you or your neighbors...At least the money GM borrowed will be paid back and they are working to correct the situation. People in Hurricane states go through the same thing over and over again rebuilding and costing the rest of us billions again and again...Do you see any problem there?
 
Just one hurricane, a big one admittedly, but there have been hundreds throughout the years. Estimated cost to the US taxpayer of at least 100 BILLION...How much will you guys want for the next big one?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9329293/

While you guys just rebuild in the same area, selfishly putting my money at risk right along with your homes and lives. No change in action or where you might live, just collect from the insurance and rebuild...Tell me when was the last time the State of Michigan required billions of Federal dollars to clean up after a natural disaster? Has the State of Michigan EVER had a natural disaster that cost the taxpayers 100's of billions?
 
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