long term employees fired?

[dlundblad]

In my experience, the crotchety old grouches are some of the best people to work with once you know them. I had a few at my last job that invited me golfing with them a few times and we have since become friends.

My current employer has a few as well and they are great at what they do. Once you get to know them, they'd sure be fun to have some beers with. One recently shared with me how the young lady at star bucks chewed him out when he ordered a black coffee.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: KD0AXS



+1

 

[grampi]

Welcome to today's employment world. It's simple, the old heads are let go because companies don't want to pay for their pensions when they retire...thankfully, I work for the federal gov where they can't do that...

 

[kschachn]

That's nice. None of which makes them good employees, neither to the company nor to customers.

There is a large OPE place near my house that is infested with these guys. They couldn't care less what "customer service" means and seem to only want to complain about big box stores and how only stupid people would buy something there. About 20 miles away is another dealer, owned by an Indian guy who seems to care about his customers. Guess which one I go to?

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
In my experience, the crotchety old grouches are some of the best people to work with once you know them. I had a few at my last job that invited me golfing with them a few times and we have since become friends.

My current employer has a few as well and they are great at what they do. Once you get to know them, they'd sure be fun to have some beers with. One recently shared with me how the young lady at star bucks chewed him out when he ordered a black coffee.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
That's nice. None of which makes them good employees, neither to the company nor to customers.

There is a large OPE place near my house that is infested with these guys. They couldn't care less what "customer service" means and seem to only want to complain about big box stores and how only stupid people would buy something there. About 20 miles away is another dealer, owned by an Indian guy who seems to care about his customers. Guess which one I go to?

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
In my experience, the crotchety old grouches are some of the best people to work with once you know them. I had a few at my last job that invited me golfing with them a few times and we have since become friends.

My current employer has a few as well and they are great at what they do. Once you get to know them, they'd sure be fun to have some beers with. One recently shared with me how the young lady at star bucks chewed him out when he ordered a black coffee.


I suppose if we worked with the general public or if they dealt with my employer's customers, some folks would get offended.. But we/ they don't..

I also said they are good at what they do so therefore, they are beneficial to the company.

My town has an OPE place similar to the one in your example. I go to the Kubota/ Stihl dealer that's right down the road.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
I suppose if we worked with the general public or if they dealt with my employer's customers, some folks would get offended.. But we/ they don't..

I also said they are good at what they do so therefore, they are beneficial to the company.

My town has an OPE place similar to the one in your example. I go to the Kubota/ Stihl dealer that's right down the road.


Yeah OK you're right.

That place nearby my house used to have a call-in segment on the local radio station on Saturday mornings. Lol, you should have heard them on there. They actually berated callers and constantly made dispariging comments at times such as complaining about everybody bringing in their equipment in early spring. Their comment started out with "What is wrong with people?" I never listened after that and that show was discontinued soon after.

 

[zzyzzx]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Welcome to today's employment world. It's simple, the old heads are let go because companies don't want to pay for their pensions when they retire...


Private companies don't have defined benefit pensions any more and haven't in decades.

 

[firemachine69]

Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Originally Posted By: grampi
Welcome to today's employment world. It's simple, the old heads are let go because companies don't want to pay for their pensions when they retire...


Private companies don't have defined benefit pensions any more and haven't in decades.




I cashed in my pension for a LIRA from my previous employer. New hires hired directly after me started getting defined contribution pensions, mine was defined benefit. That being said, if you've ridden the Greyhound in the last five or so years, it isn't very hard to see how hard management is trying to board up that place...

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Reddy45
I can think of a few reasons...


...3. Culture. Management may want a work culture that heavily favors a younger crowd (people who don't have families or SOs so they can work long hours, sleep at the office, etc. -- think finance/trading type places)

I once worked for an employer who obviously had a preference towards up and comers fresh out of school. These new guys were eager and willing to please, had no prior work experience so they couldn't compare their new job to anything else, and most were still single. The funny part was how they were REQUIRING a masters degree for entry level positions and paid $50k. I was lucky to have gotten hired before the massive shift in culture because I (and many of my peers) basically said "there's no way I would be hired if I applied now"...


Yep, it's usually management change.

In my case a large number of we older scientists/engineers (15+ years company time), making more than the younger engineers, were "let go" after a new, younger manager took over the local company operations, with company upper management citing all kinds of stupid reasons for terminating employment. My immediate manager was not happy with this decision since we were working on some critical projects for the military, and my skills/experience could not be replaced.

Fortunately, I was able to go to work for another company in the same industry.

After about 2.5 years at the new company, I received a notice asking me if I wanted to join a Class Action suit on the basis of age discrimination.

I declined the offer since I had no real bad feelings toward former company, even though I too had felt this was a setup/excuse for releasing older, highly paid scientist/ engineers.

A short time later I received an email from a fellow scientist/engineer with whom I had worked and he stated this former employer was leaving this location for other states, closing down all operations, and he was looking for another job.

 

[Mr Nice]

Quote:
It must cost businesses a pretty penny when someone retires. I haven't really looked into it, so I'm not totally sure how it all works. The days of hefty retirement packages are a thing of the past.

Employees hired at my job before 2012 qualified for 2 pension (company and voluntary)... this is separate from 401K plan and company stock purchase plan. If I retired today both pensions would be over $7500 a month.

Pensions are a dying concept as its an expensive legacy cost to employer.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
How come businesses let go of employees who have been working at the same place for 20 years and they're fixing to retire in the next 5 years? Is it because they are paying them too much and need to replace them with workers who don't make as much?


Is this actually happening or is this just an urban myth?
Selectively eliminating older employees as a cost saving measure would be a violation of federal law and would be actionable. The costs involved in settling the suit would dwarf any cost savings in wages that would otherwise have been paid.
Getting rid of long term employees also means the loss of both job and cultural knowledge. People aren't perfectly interchangeable and the organization policy manual will inevitably have a lot of gaps and grey areas. The old heads know how to get things done within the organizational framework. The new hires don't.
Now, in the case of an acquisition, usually framed as a merger even though it typically isn't, the acquiring company has very well defined goals. Those goals may involve the entry into a promising new line of business in which the acquired firm has expertise and position but are often simply elimination of a competitor.
In either case, there will be a lot of bloodletting at the acquired firm.
Finally, where I work most of those fired are recent hires and most of them are let go for either poor attendance or refusing to work mandated overtime.
These people are told when hired that they'll have to work two or three mandatory double shifts each week, so they need to plan their lives accordingly.
The smarter ones plan for this and volunteer for OT when it's most convenient for them.
With time and seniority, the mandated OT fades away, but it is a reality for new hires ATM. There was a time when OT was rare and there were grievances over who got it. In that environment, new hires had no concerns about OT since they weren't getting any.

 

[joemo]

It is happening.to save on holiday and vacation pay.

 

[HM12460]

A union environment can prevent this. Union's are a dying breed, I get that. Union's often have to protect the lazy, sub-standard worker. I get that too and have seen it happen. It isn't a perfect world we live in by any means. I'll take my union job over any non union job every time.

 

[firemachine69]

Originally Posted By: HM12460
A union environment can prevent this. Union's are a dying breed, I get that. Union's often have to protect the lazy, sub-standard worker. I get that too and have seen it happen. It isn't a perfect world we live in by any means. I'll take my union job over any non union job every time.



I myself am a big supporter of unions. But only because strong ethics seem to be a dying breed.

 

[Vern_in_IL]

Originally Posted By: firemachine69
Originally Posted By: HM12460
A union environment can prevent this. Union's are a dying breed, I get that. Union's often have to protect the lazy, sub-standard worker. I get that too and have seen it happen. It isn't a perfect world we live in by any means. I'll take my union job over any non union job every time.



I myself am a big supporter of unions. But only because strong ethics seem to be a dying breed.

Really depends on the company... Our company treats us great, but if there is pro union legislation in congress.... plant meeting to remind us how bad unions are!

 

[DoubleWasp]

It happens. When I worked for a popular computer company whose name I will not mention, I was something of a "problem solver", which later turned into really being a job as a "bag man". I and parallel colleagues in the company were given black-and-white instructions in very diplomatic terms (likely written by lawyers) to target the long-term employees for elimination.

As is typical for a large corporation, they did not directly target them. We were given instructions to go after certain separate problems that basically joined together in a concentric web that ensnared older and long-term employees. If a company wants to get rid of a duck, they don't tell you to get rid of a duck. They issue several memos and orders charging you to pursue independent policies that essentially make for a duck-unfriendly workplace. Plausible deniability.

Every time a blade of grass died, the company declared the sky was falling and cut pay and benefits for the old guard. If they complained about anything, fired. "Security concerns" were used as excuses to get rid of anything they used to be comfortable working. Seat cushions? Gone. Screen covers to reduce eye fatigue? Gone. Egronomic keyboard and mice? Gone. Wrist cushions? Gone. Shift people around and isolate the older crowd with young people the elders couldn't relate to? Yup.

Right about the time they started having troops of security pull people off of the floor Gestapo/KGB style for even the smallest perceived infractions is when I got out. I told my immediate supervisor, "If you'll do it to them, you'll do it to me too.".

On my last day, they had security posted at the door to interrogate people as to where they were going. I watched a person get written up for "lying" because he said he was going to bathroom, but also stopped to get a snack from the break room without mentioning he was also going to grab a snack.

Sudden and unreasonable changes is an excellent way to get rid of the older and long term employees.

For the rest of them, they simply claimed economic hardship as a reason for laying them off.

It was no big shock when employment ads by temp agencies looking to staff our company appeared en masse only weeks later.

 

[fdcg27]

Did this popular computer company whose name shall not be mentioned survive this purge?
This sounds like really bad business practice, aside from being unethical.
There was a time when no other business entity would do business with such a company.

 

[Mr Nice]

DW,

That toxic work environment would have me looking for another job.

Lots of companies want contract, temp people working for them. To maximize profits employee payroll and benefits are the first to get cut.

 

[DoubleWasp]

They're alive and well. Doing extremely well, from what I have heard and read. Like many tech companies facing temporary economic decline at the time, they impressed investors and shareholders through bombastic cost cutting through a lot of throat cutting.

At the time, I was young and assumed that what I was seeing was an isolated incident. But of course I learned that this type of behaviour is common enough.

I just couldn't live that way. I used to enjoy that job, because it involved a lot of resolution which reduced stupid conflicts that were costing the company money, or eliminated problems that resulted in greater profits and happier employees. I just didn't like the idea of being the Ray Donovan of a company gone evil.

 

[opus1]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
How come businesses let go of employees who have been working at the same place for 20 years and they're fixing to retire in the next 5 years? Is it because they are paying them too much and need to replace them with workers who don't make as much?


Is this actually happening or is this just an urban myth?
Yes. Don't ask me how I know...