Liberals are gonna hate this...

[keith]

I can hear the "tax cuts for the rich" hysteria already:

REPUBLICANS PLAN PUSH FOR ELIMINATION OF IRS

The IRS is the head of the liberal "tax and spend" religion, so this should be fun.

Batten down the hatches folks, there is an ugly assortment of rabid protestors on their way to NYC and I doubt ABC/CBS/NBC/CNN/MSNBC will ignore the protestors as they did at the Boston caged "concentration camps".

Keith.

 

[Al]

99% of what comes out of Drudge you can safely ignore-its bogus.

But having said that that would be the greatest thing that could happen. As someone said the biggest problem the U.S. would have is getting enough people to build and run all the new businesses that would start.

 

[VaderSS]

I believe that replacing the income tax with a federal income tax would be the best thing to happen in a very long time.

What truly frightens me though, is a federal sales tax being added, but the income tax being left in. I've seen too much legislation that ends up giving the "worst of both worlds" to have much faith left...

 

[Shannow]

I like all of the ideas of replacing incomes taxes with a consumption, or flat tax (with the exclusion of the absolute needs of life, simple foodstuffs, etc).

But there is no way on this Earth that either side of politics will let it happen.

If there's a fixed 10% tax on every transaction, then the only way for them to get more money is to keep the economy on track.

With an income tax system, they can rely on bracket creep to push people into ever higher tax brackets, making more and more money, that they can then give to people as a gift come election time.

 

[keith]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Al:
99% of what comes out of Drudge you can safely ignore-its bogus.

---

99% is way too high, but I get the point and agree

However, this appears to be a leak from the soon to be published book written by Dennis Hastert.

Speaker: Lessons from Forty Years in Coaching and Politics

Keith.

 

[Eric Peterman]

A few years ago I read a study by some economists that take not just financial factors into account but environmental and opportunity costs into account. They did a study of the IRS and included all costs, including deforestation from so much paper use, wasted labor and man-power spent within the frictional IRS system (rather than production), they quantified the impact of fear and coercion and litigation with individuals and businesses, etc, etc.

Their conclusion is that over the long haul the IRS consumes (or will consume) EVERY dollar that they collect in taxes. This means that over many decades we are running an insurmountable deficit (including natural resource costs and productivity loss).

Consider that the money paid to a tax accountant is total dead weight. It produces absolutely nothing. So we have a highly trained professional that SHOULD be doing something productive, and instead they are doing zero in any productive sense.

 

[Shannow]

Eric,
it would be amazing to see all things priced in terms of "actual" cost.

Oil and petrol would bear the actual costs of the wars required to ensure supply, the cost of terrorism, environmental cost of CO2 sequestration etc etc. Maybe then, market forces would get us to do something else.

AND, as you've pointed out, reduce the number of accountants and economists.

Now we should start working out ways to eliminate lawyers.

 

[Shannow]

It might also get rid of this stupid concept of unlimited growth that economists espousem when the price of resources is planned to increase as they are used.

 

[needtoknow]

Actually Keith I would like to see the IRS eliminated and see something more efficient than the present system like a sales tax. At least it would cut out the no tax cash income segment of the economy. I would be willing to look at the proposal but doubt it can be made any fairer than the present system. Would it also get rid of tax right offs and loopholes? Wonder how the H&R Blocks and accounting industry would react? But don't think for a moment that this was thought up by concerned politicians trying to make the system fair, it'll be another method to download costs away from corporations and the elite rich. Do the Repubs also want to do away with Ag Business subsidies?

 

[keith]

quote:

---

Originally posted by needtoknow:
Actually Keith I would like to see the IRS eliminated and see something more efficient than the present system like a sales tax. At least it would cut out the no tax cash income segment of the economy. I would be willing to look at the proposal but doubt it can be made any fairer than the present system.

---

Now that is positively the last response I expected. Surely the evil rich are getting too good of a deal right now? JFKerry tell us that every day.

I look forward to Kennedy, Daschle, Hillary, Pelosi and the rest of the "mainstream" democrat leadership to embrace the idea, right after they support social security reform

Keith.

 

[pbm]

How fair is the present system when the billionaire Kerry's paid 90k in income taxes while the Bush's (net worth 15 million) paid 240k.
All the loopholes should be closed. It's ridiculous when a 60k a year worker has to pay an accountant to do his taxes because it's so complicated. I agree with the posts on this and other threads that state that both parties are corrupt and out of touch with the people. A big problem we have is the media who are no longer unbiased reporters of news but rather tools of
one party or the other. The average "Joe" has no way of knowing what the facts are. An example would be Moore's movie F911. We had information from Russian, British and our own intel that Iraq had WMD's and that Saddam intended to use them against US interests. Now it appears that at least some of this intel was incorrect.(Remember
Hussein used gas (a WMD) against his own people).
If Bush had not acted and we were attacked again they would have crucified him. Bush takes action and the left call him a liar because he received flawed intel.( remember Clinton took little/no action for 8 years allowing these terrorist groups to grow and become bolder.) Anyway my point is Moore brands Bush a liar and the major media allow this misinterpretation to spread hoping to help elect their man Kerry in Nov.
If you don't agree with this then why haven't Jennings, Brokaw,Donaldson etc.. even questioned the veracity of Moore's assertions.

 

[k1xv]

Virtually any proposal to eliminate an income tax will shift the tax burden from the very wealthy to the very unwealthy, including the middle class. We had that kind of tax structure in the 19th century, when, before an income tax, much of the federal tax revenue was collected via excise taxes.

By definition, except maybe for some "webTV" types, virtually everyone here is competent enough to run a computer. No doubt the tax code could be made simpler and would be fairer if the standard deductions were increased. However, if you can run a computer (and as time goes on, it will be a near universal skill), tax preparation programs such as TurboTax greatly simplify the process.

 

[Al]

quote:

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Originally posted by k1xv:
Virtually any proposal to eliminate an income tax will shift the tax burden from the very wealthy to the very unwealthy, including the middle class.

---

Well it would be nice if folks that still have two cars and a house and many nice things to pay more than the 10% of the taxe they are now paying.

 

[k1xv]

Al:

I suspect your 10% figure does not include the Social Security tax on income, including the employer's matching share. For somebody making up to the SSI limit, this tax alone is well over 15% with no deductions or exemptions.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

kx1v, nobody wants to talk about these taxes. It's like a phart that everbody smells, but no one acknowledges.

 

[keith]

quote:

---

Originally posted by GROUCHO MARX:
kx1v, nobody wants to talk about these taxes.

---

So true. This Ponzi scam is a huge shift of wealth from black men to white ladies (based on longevity statistics). If Jesse Jackson and his ilk could see path their political bigotry, they would be outraged at how they have been abused.

If you want to get the DC democrats into a lather, just hint at Social Security reform and run for cover.

Keith.