Lexus IS?

[JeffKeryk]

I wonder how much of the “far better price” aspect was actually exchange rates. As I recall, at the time the DM was quite strong, driving the USD valuations crazy high.

I own two late w126 cars. See plenty on the road. Don’t see many early LS sedans. Dubious that any on the road would be as reliable, even with Mercedes’ mistake of making the 3.0L into a 3.5. The w140 was a different, complex beast. If Toyota was able to reverse engineer its kind of a cheat. My w140 was closing in on 300k when I sold it.

I own 2 1960s classics that are worth far more than their MSRP. I believe you and I are outliers.
Lexus ate the MBZ and others lunch and changed the way they do business. That's history.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Why are some of you guys glamming onto the need for "sodium filled exhaust valves?" Since when is this a requirement for a good engine? If exhaust valve temps are crazy high, they can be a benefit. But what does this have to do with a Lexus IS?

Ar the time (90's early 2000) is was for reliable operation at Autobahn speeds.

 

[JHZR2]

I own 2 1960s classics that are worth far more than their MSRP. I believe you and I are outliers.
Lexus ate the MBZ and others lunch and changed the way they do business. That's history.

Maybe, but the reality still is that Lexus of that era aren’t around, and don’t necessarily have the longevity of the MB cars for whatever reason - perceived reliability aside. Sure, they all made stupid decisions (biodegradable wiring anyone?), but the reality is that time has been the greatest decider on longevity of the vehicles, and in that area, MB still won. Most of the cars In talking about don’t have the same nostalgic draw as yours, they are slow, utilitarian, efficient. But not even so by modern standards. They’ll run forever, and they’re seen on the road forever. I can think of at least four nice w123 cars still in daily use in my travels and daily commute. Can’t think of many 1980s Toyotas, or early 90s Lexus. No MBA text has those realities in it.

 

[JHZR2]

Ar the time (90's early 2000) is was for reliable operation at Autobahn speeds.

Which perhaps wasn’t the target requirement of the LS relative to a next gen large sedan to attempt to one-up the w126, which had been designed in the mid-1970s (lol), and ultimately be more reliable than the w140, which was MB’s own complexity and tech inclusions, not anything that Lexus necessarily did better - probably more of what they omitted.

It’s funny, I’ve been pretty pro-Lexus in this thread, at least in terms of their ability to actually produce competitive RWD large engine cars. It was originally my thread after all, and due to genuine interest in perhaps procuring one at some point.

But they are improvements on an obsolete copy.

 

[meep]

Lifting a glass to my (departed) ‘14 GS. It was a fine automobile. The ES was probably the more luxurious feeling, but the GS driving dynamics were far better. Ultimately what sold the GS away from us was the high belt line when combine with a short wife who felt “in a hole” and uncomfortable in it for longer periods. That lowered its practical usefulness. Uncompetitive gas mileage reduced its practicality. It excelled at being a well-built sports car. I’d have another - though in spite of all public opinions would want to try the 200T variant.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Lifting a glass to my (departed) ‘14 GS. It was a fine automobile. The ES was probably the more luxurious feeling, but the GS driving dynamics were far better. Ultimately what sold the GS away from us was the high belt line when combine with a short wife who felt “in a hole” and uncomfortable in it for longer periods. That lowered its practical usefulness. Uncompetitive gas mileage reduced its practicality. It excelled at being a well-built sports car. I’d have another - though in spite of all public opinions would want to try the 200T variant.

200T? Please. I drove one. My '64 Bug would show it its taillights. Lexus' mistake. Ha!

 

[edyvw]

Which perhaps wasn’t the target requirement of the LS relative to a next gen large sedan to attempt to one-up the w126, which had been designed in the mid-1970s (lol), and ultimately be more reliable than the w140, which was MB’s own complexity and tech inclusions, not anything that Lexus necessarily did better - probably more of what they omitted.

It’s funny, I’ve been pretty pro-Lexus in this thread, at least in terms of their ability to actually produce competitive RWD large engine cars. It was originally my thread after all, and due to genuine interest in perhaps procuring one at some point.

But they are improvements on an obsolete copy.

Which is what the audience that was going for MB wanted. MB was always at the forefront of innovation. Lexus? I cannot remember anything that Lexus, as a luxury brand, pioneered (maybe I missed something).
In the end, they ended up being luxury appliances. Besides a few LS400 that people hold because of their own sentimental reasons, no one is going out of their way to purchase one. I cannot remember when I have seen one on the road.
I think they had a very good chance to be something more than just a plush-up refrigerator. But, bean counters, lack of imagination, etc.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Which is what the audience that was going for MB wanted. MB was always at the forefront of innovation. Lexus? I cannot remember anything that Lexus, as a luxury brand, pioneered (maybe I missed something).
In the end, they ended up being luxury appliances. Besides a few LS400 that people hold because of their own sentimental reasons, no one is going out of their way to purchase one. I cannot remember when I have seen one on the road.
I think they had a very good chance to be something more than just a plush-up refrigerator. But, bean counters, lack of imagination, etc.

They pioneered high quality and reliability at a far better price. And ate MBZ lunch. Lexus forced MBZ to up their game, to improve their products and lower prices.

 

[edyvw]

They pioneered high quality and reliability at a far better price. And ate MBZ lunch. Lexus forced MBZ to up their game, to improve their products and lower prices.

By using obsolete technology? That is your definition of Pioneering? Lexus itself is using a bunch of stuff pioneered by Mercedes.
And then they will discontinue LS this year. One thing is for sure: considering it has a V35 engine, LS will go into history with a bang.

 

[JeffKeryk]

By using obsolete technology? That is your definition of Pioneering? Lexus itself is using a bunch of stuff pioneered by Mercedes.
And then they will discontinue LS this year. One thing is for sure: considering it has a V35 engine, LS will go into history with a bang.

Read it again. They offered better reliability at a lower price. And changed the lux market.
Pioneering means being among the first to do or develop/do something new.

 

[4wd]

They pioneered high quality and reliability at a far better price. And ate MBZ lunch. Lexus forced MBZ to up their game, to improve their products and lower prices.

I was in a management class and the professor told this story - it was the first time I had heard “paradigm shift” …
There was a German in the class - he was not liking this lecture at all

 

[edyvw]

Read it again. They offered better reliability at a lower price. And changed the lux market.
Pioneering means being among the first to do or develop/do something new.

No, it didn’t changed luxury market. It changed options for buyers averaging 102 yrs old. Luxury market cares about, well, luxury.

 

[JeffKeryk]

No, it didn’t changed luxury market. It changed options for buyers averaging 102 yrs old. Luxury market cares about, well, luxury.

History (and reality) says differently. As consumers, we should thank Toyota/Lexus for driving car companies to make better products at a better price.

But don't take my word for it, go take a marketing class, or better yet, a US Business History class. Mercedes represents automotive history, while Lexus was a deliberate market disruption focused on quality and reliability.

 

[edyvw]

History (and reality) says differently. As consumers, we should thank Toyota/Lexus for driving car companies to make better products at a better price.

But don't take my word for it, go take a marketing class, or better yet, a US Business History class. Mercedes represents automotive history, while Lexus was a deliberate market disruption focused on quality and reliability.

What is happening to LS? Where is it? What did MB changed in response to LS? In 1998 MB introduced 200+ patented innovations to S class. Nit something car companies like to do if pure reliability is the goal.
Today, S class is there, LS? Well take basic business class. Actually, if you ever sold lemonade on a stand as a kid, you will understand why they are discontinuing LS.

 

[JeffKeryk]

What is happening to LS? Where is it? What did MB changed in response to LS? In 1998 MB introduced 200+ patented innovations to S class. Nit something car companies like to do if pure reliability is the goal.
Today, S class is there, LS? Well take basic business class. Actually, if you ever sold lemonade on a stand as a kid, you will understand why they are discontinuing LS.

You continue to miss the point. Mercedes, and others, have changed their business to the benefit of us, the consumers. Lexus drove them; forced their hand. It's just that simple.

 

[trd1zz]

Back on topic, glad to see Toyota/Lexus continuing to build 2GR's. Too bad it's not available as an option on their other new vehicles. The 2GR is so much smoother and refined compared to the T24A.

 

[edyvw]

You continue to miss the point. Mercedes, and others, have changed their business to the benefit of us, the consumers. Lexus drove them; forced their hand. It's just that simple.

What did they do? Are you saying that Toyota changed its business because of Mercedes W123, arguably most reliable vehicle ever made? Maybe Toyota introduced Lexus once they realized Mercedes is going away with W123, and copied it?

 

[4wd]

What’s missing from this standard biased debate is that the world wants SUV’s … and luxury cars sales ain’t flying upward like a rocket boosted

 

[edyvw]

What’s missing from this standard biased debate is that the world wants SUV’s … and luxury cars sales ain’t flying upward like a rocket boosted

Yes, SUVs are trendy, but some companies can still sell sedans successfully. Depends on what company sells. LS is an afterthought for a loooong time.
However, Lexus had a chance with IS. Last year, they sold them like hotcakes. Still, they decided to euthanise it.

 

[4wd]

Yes, SUVs are trendy, but some companies can still sell sedans successfully. Depends on what company sells. LS is an afterthought for a loooong time.
However, Lexus had a chance with IS. Last year, they sold them like hotcakes. Still, they decided to euthanise it.

I mean with all the Bentley SUV’s I’m seeing in the EU - it’s a trend that’s real (of course Porsche jumped in early) …