JHZR2
Staff member
Yeah, at that point what’s the point?!?
Not really interested in paying a premium for the same parts, and services…
Lexus IS?
- Thread starter JHZR2
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Not really interested in paying a premium for the same parts, and services…
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
Yep. They really had opportunity with IS and GS. But I guess people who were in control of ES development, were also deciding development of IS and GS.
JHZR2
Staff member
Why do they need ES department at all? It’s just fancy Camry.
They should have kept up a set of RWD up engined performance and comfort oriented vehicles to compete with BMW/MB.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
I am saying that all this time.
In few years BMW and Mercedes might be only luxury brands to survive. Audi is not doing good at all. Infiniti is gone as soon as contracts with dealerships expire. Acura will probably die off too.
ES sells well.
JHZR2
Staff member
It does because it’s a fancy Camry. Not that it’s a bad thing until you pay unexplainable parts premiums for the exact same part, as I’ve experienced with my brother’s Land Cruiser.
At least Audi has handsome sedans, and differentiates from vw products by offering AWD. Granted the SUVs in the VW lineup are popular and also give that, but they’re not the same as the Audi ones. Similar to how the Lexus RX was not the same thing as the Highlander.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
Their quality went down big time. Also, VW stopped at one point ICE development, thinking just to go EV, then now they are back at it. Too much cost-cutting because. dieselgate =. Cheaper interiors, quality of materials. They are really lagging behind MB and BMW.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
I am not sure that is the point of the conversation.
Yes, it does, so does Corolla.
The conversation has gone down a rabbit hole where you want a manual. Simple fact is that most Lexus owners don't want manual, they want a comfortable, high quality vehicle. The success of the ES is testament to that thinking.
JHZR2
Staff member
Except that this is my thread, and I’m not sure I really said that, though certainly I do prefer manuals, even in traffic.
My eyes on an is were really as a personal vehicle, since we already have an accord and odyssey as daily drivers.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
Again, we all know that.
We know Lexus is aiming at retired 114 yrs old in Florida villages. But eventually, they can sell them plush Avalon, which what ES is, and brand can go down the drain. Problem with targeting customers like that is that they don’t have allegiance. One bad product, like now ones equipped with V35, and they are gone. LS is prime example. Mercedes can make bad engine, people still buy S class. LS? You can count on one hand how many of them they sell.
Diversifying customers, making more of the brand, now that others are leaving void in that segment is an opportunity. They can still sell bunch of ES to retirement homes, but then even that car is attached to something more exciting.
Otherwise , Toyota will at one point realize that running Lexus is just double the work.
4wd
$50 site donor 2026
Don’t wait up late for them to call you …
They just wrapped up a record year …
edyvw
$50 site donor 2026
Lexus had a significant impact on MBZ and the lux market overall. Far better quality and reliability at a far better price.
That's history and is even taught in business schools. Unfortunately the legendary Toyota quality seems to have slipped in recent years.
Basically Lexus made the segment better for us, the consumers.
But you already knew that, right?
Our '13 GS350 F Sport has 120K and I've only done services, brakes and tires. I would not compare its performance to upscale German performance cars, but I wanted quality for my hard earned money. So far so good. Knock on wood.
That's history and is even taught in business schools. Unfortunately the legendary Toyota quality seems to have slipped in recent years.
Basically Lexus made the segment better for us, the consumers.
But you already knew that, right?
Our '13 GS350 F Sport has 120K and I've only done services, brakes and tires. I would not compare its performance to upscale German performance cars, but I wanted quality for my hard earned money. So far so good. Knock on wood.
Kind of. At that time Lexus couldn't run as long and as fast as the luxury German makes because of the metallurgy used in their valve stems. It didn't matter in the US as luxury buyers wanted Cadillac driving dynamics, a quiet ride, and Toyota levels of reliability at much lower speeds.
JHZR2
Staff member
I wonder how much of the “far better price” aspect was actually exchange rates. As I recall, at the time the DM was quite strong, driving the USD valuations crazy high.
I own two late w126 cars. See plenty on the road. Don’t see many early LS sedans. Dubious that any on the road would be as reliable, even with Mercedes’ mistake of making the 3.0L into a 3.5. The w140 was a different, complex beast. If Toyota was able to reverse engineer its kind of a cheat. My w140 was closing in on 300k when I sold it.
Interesting, I didn’t realize that the engines were compromised like that. At least Lexus was making RWD v8 sedans at the time, introducing competition. I don’t really have a need for a v8 sedan, but the RWD large designs are still desirable. Bummer they’re gone. LS is discontinued after 2026 as I understand.
Apparently at the time they didn't use the more expensive sodium filled exhaust valves unlike say BMW.
Look at the Lava mica pearl that was offered on the rc-f. It's a crazy metallic orange.
JHZR2
Staff member
My 120hp OM617 MB turbo diesels (designed in the mid-70s, based upon older designs from the 60s or older) used those. That’s inexcusable if Toyota had that long to copy!
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Why are some of you guys glamming onto the need for "sodium filled exhaust valves?" Since when is this a requirement for a good engine? If exhaust valve temps are crazy high, they can be a benefit. But what does this have to do with a Lexus IS?
