I just got my oil analysis back on my 96 Explorer V8 which I was using Pennzoil High Mileage 5w30 with Lube Control at the recommended doses up to 5000 miles. I had the TBN tested on this combination and it was at 1.5 with 4950 miles on the oil. I was very surprised about this because on Lube Controls website they recommend 10,000 OCI, so i was very surprised to see the oil done at just under 5000. Can anyone explain this? What is the point of LC if I can't even make it to 5000. If it is not stabilizing the TBN, etc. like stated on the website, how do I know it is doing everything else that is advertised. Not really impressed after seeing this analysis. I don't drive this vehicle hard either and it is a mix of city and highway, not much idling or anything else. I know they are different engines, but my wife's CRV was tested at 5000 with Havoline 5w20 with no LC added at all and that had a higher TBN. Has anyone else had this issue with LC and whatever oil you were running not making it to 5000? Did you continue to run it or did you just switch to a synthetic. After reading alot of posts on here, I was under the asumption that most SM oils today will go 5000, so I thought I was in the clear with the poplular Pennzoil with LC.
LC and Pennzoil done at 5000 miles?
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First, any of the Shell oils like Pennzoil are probably very good oils when compared to similar oils. Havoline oils are also considered to be quite good.
5W-20 oils are probably better oils in general than many 5w30's
I think the CRV engine is very easy on oil. What year is the CRV? And how many miles?
The Explorer is coming up on 12 years old , probably has higher mileage, and it is a V8 so it probably is harder on oil.
I use LC-20 and I don't expect miracles...I really don't believe that I can run a cheapo conventional oil in an older engine for 10,000 miles just because I added a few ounces of LC-20.
What was the factory oil change interval for that Explorer? And how many quarts of oil does it hold? And what is its displacement and horsepower?
Compare that to the CRV's OCI, oil capacity, displacement and horsepower and you may see that the oil in the CRV is not stressed as much.
I only expect the LC-20 to provide a small additional advantage in preventing oxidation and in dissolving or suspending carbon...but that is enough for me.
5W-20 oils are probably better oils in general than many 5w30's
I think the CRV engine is very easy on oil. What year is the CRV? And how many miles?
The Explorer is coming up on 12 years old , probably has higher mileage, and it is a V8 so it probably is harder on oil.
I use LC-20 and I don't expect miracles...I really don't believe that I can run a cheapo conventional oil in an older engine for 10,000 miles just because I added a few ounces of LC-20.
What was the factory oil change interval for that Explorer? And how many quarts of oil does it hold? And what is its displacement and horsepower?
Compare that to the CRV's OCI, oil capacity, displacement and horsepower and you may see that the oil in the CRV is not stressed as much.
I only expect the LC-20 to provide a small additional advantage in preventing oxidation and in dissolving or suspending carbon...but that is enough for me.
Triple_Se7en
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Agreed!
We need to see before & after used oil analysis. There could be other issues with the engine - prohibiting/minimizing oil life lengthening.
LC is a good product hands down.
But you must have trended analysis with and without LC under identical conditions (as identical as possible).
I would think that using LC for two or three consecutive runs will clean things up nicely. Then, trending two or three runs without LC will provide good results as the engine will *already* be in a cleaner state than if this scenario is switched around. I don't think you'll find the data you're looking for...
Your wife's CRV has half as many cylinders punishing the oil...thus the TBN is higher....
Lastly, you are in the clear with Pennzoil and LC, but what if TBN is low, and all wear rates come back looking A-OK at 10K? I don't think TBN is the only indicator of good performance! There's far too many variables at play here...
Do you have a link to your UOA?
But you must have trended analysis with and without LC under identical conditions (as identical as possible).
I would think that using LC for two or three consecutive runs will clean things up nicely. Then, trending two or three runs without LC will provide good results as the engine will *already* be in a cleaner state than if this scenario is switched around. I don't think you'll find the data you're looking for...
Your wife's CRV has half as many cylinders punishing the oil...thus the TBN is higher....
Lastly, you are in the clear with Pennzoil and LC, but what if TBN is low, and all wear rates come back looking A-OK at 10K? I don't think TBN is the only indicator of good performance! There's far too many variables at play here...
Do you have a link to your UOA?
Thanks for the replies
I realize it would help to have a baseline without LC, but I don't at this time. I really wasn't comparing my wifes to mine, I was just stating something that didn't run either Pennzoil or LC. I know there are a ton of variables, but my main reason for posting was because i was surprised at what the TBN was with just under 5000 on the oil when both LC is recommended for 10000 OCI and most Sm oils are said to easily reach 5000. So getting back the TBN report using both of these i though I would have a different result.
I don't have a link for the report, but it came back matching all of the unit averages except for Iron with was 27 vs. the avg of 22. Everything else looks good, no fuel, coolant and .02 insolubles. My Explorer is in great shape for a 96 with 120000. Runs really solid and is not driven hard or used for towing or anything. Just transportation to and from work. It has had an Auto-Rx treatment a few years ago and have used LC and FP60 ever since, so it should be relatively clean for it age. Factory OCI is 3000 severe, 5000 normal, holds about 5.5qts and the V8 is a 302 rated at 215hp-280tq. Don't really think there are any other variables with the engine to cause this. All maintenance is up to date.
Basically I was just posting to see if others have had and issue with LC, for the way my truck is used and maintained, I was expecting alittle more out of the Pennzoil-LC combo especially after reading the what LC does at the recommended does on their website. Was expecting alittle more then reported. thanks again
I realize it would help to have a baseline without LC, but I don't at this time. I really wasn't comparing my wifes to mine, I was just stating something that didn't run either Pennzoil or LC. I know there are a ton of variables, but my main reason for posting was because i was surprised at what the TBN was with just under 5000 on the oil when both LC is recommended for 10000 OCI and most Sm oils are said to easily reach 5000. So getting back the TBN report using both of these i though I would have a different result.
I don't have a link for the report, but it came back matching all of the unit averages except for Iron with was 27 vs. the avg of 22. Everything else looks good, no fuel, coolant and .02 insolubles. My Explorer is in great shape for a 96 with 120000. Runs really solid and is not driven hard or used for towing or anything. Just transportation to and from work. It has had an Auto-Rx treatment a few years ago and have used LC and FP60 ever since, so it should be relatively clean for it age. Factory OCI is 3000 severe, 5000 normal, holds about 5.5qts and the V8 is a 302 rated at 215hp-280tq. Don't really think there are any other variables with the engine to cause this. All maintenance is up to date.
Basically I was just posting to see if others have had and issue with LC, for the way my truck is used and maintained, I was expecting alittle more out of the Pennzoil-LC combo especially after reading the what LC does at the recommended does on their website. Was expecting alittle more then reported. thanks again
I have been using LC-20 and FP-60 or FP-3000 for a while now, I haven't done any testing and I haven't seen any dramatic changes [ perhaps beter mpg and a smoother running engine ] but I am happy with the products and will continue to use them.
I really don't expect miracles since I maintain the cars fairly well, so they run well already.
If I didn't use Lubecontrol products then I'd use another set of additives like ARX, Redline SI-1, or Techron.
I figure that LC costs 30 cents per ounce so most of us are spending $3.00 to $3.50 per oil change if we dose at 1 oz/ quart of oil plus 1 oz per 1000 miles over 5K to 7K with 5 qt capacity.
For DIY'ers an oil change costs anywhere from $3.50 in materials [ an oil on sale at 50 cents / qt plus $1.00 for the filter ] ...up to $55 in materials for a premium oil and filter. A median oil and filter cost is probably $20.00 in materials for DYI'ers.
I'll say LC-20 costs 60 cents per 1000 miles. [ Some cars might be more like 38 cents to 54 cents per 1000 miles ]
FP-3000, at 41 cents / oz, [ 4 cents / gallon ] probably adds 40 cents to 60 cents per 10 gallon to 15 gallon tank of gasoline [ which costs somewhere between $30 to $50 ]
FP-3000 adds $1.65 per 20 gallon + tank of diesel [ which costs between $70 and $80 in my area ]
I'll say FP-3000 adds 4 cents / gallon of gasoline and 8 cents / gallon of diesel.
Please excuse me not doing all the math here, but lets just cost out LC-20 at $60 /100K and FP-3000 at $160.00 / 100K [ @ 25 mpg ] or total cost of $220 / 100 K miles.
Meanwhile I'll spend $70 to $1100 in oil and filters [ median of $400 ], and $13,000 in fuel at 25 mpg and $3.25 / gallon.
Looks like LC-20 and FP-3000 could add an increase of 1.6% in additional costs... before any fuel savings. If LC-20 and FP-3000 increase fuel economy by .5% to 1% then savings could be $65 to $130 / 100K.
If there are fuel savings then Lubecontrol costs perhaps $155 to $90 / 100K or 1.2% to .7% more.
A spreadsheet would be better, but I think that this crude example tells me that using Lubecontrol isn't a bad bet financially.
I don't think Lubecontrol will hurt the engines, I expect it will keep the engines in slightly better shape overall.
The biggest problem for me with Lubecontrol is adding the ounce of LC-20 every 1000 miles, and FP-3000 every fillup... not so easy to do in all the cars in an extended family.
Better bottles that allowed a precised measurement and easy storage and use in each vehicle would do a lot to fix this problem since I might be able to get each driver to add LC-20 and FP-3000 to their cars.
I believe that ARX in a maintenance dose and Redline SI-1 or Techron used once every oil change will cost exactly the same over 100K. I may use this program for some vehicles that are rarely home.
I imagine the results will be similar in terms of keeping the engines in good shape,and I think I will avoid mpg decrease... although I'm not sure if I will see the same potential for mpg increase
I really don't expect miracles since I maintain the cars fairly well, so they run well already.
If I didn't use Lubecontrol products then I'd use another set of additives like ARX, Redline SI-1, or Techron.
I figure that LC costs 30 cents per ounce so most of us are spending $3.00 to $3.50 per oil change if we dose at 1 oz/ quart of oil plus 1 oz per 1000 miles over 5K to 7K with 5 qt capacity.
For DIY'ers an oil change costs anywhere from $3.50 in materials [ an oil on sale at 50 cents / qt plus $1.00 for the filter ] ...up to $55 in materials for a premium oil and filter. A median oil and filter cost is probably $20.00 in materials for DYI'ers.
I'll say LC-20 costs 60 cents per 1000 miles. [ Some cars might be more like 38 cents to 54 cents per 1000 miles ]
FP-3000, at 41 cents / oz, [ 4 cents / gallon ] probably adds 40 cents to 60 cents per 10 gallon to 15 gallon tank of gasoline [ which costs somewhere between $30 to $50 ]
FP-3000 adds $1.65 per 20 gallon + tank of diesel [ which costs between $70 and $80 in my area ]
I'll say FP-3000 adds 4 cents / gallon of gasoline and 8 cents / gallon of diesel.
Please excuse me not doing all the math here, but lets just cost out LC-20 at $60 /100K and FP-3000 at $160.00 / 100K [ @ 25 mpg ] or total cost of $220 / 100 K miles.
Meanwhile I'll spend $70 to $1100 in oil and filters [ median of $400 ], and $13,000 in fuel at 25 mpg and $3.25 / gallon.
Looks like LC-20 and FP-3000 could add an increase of 1.6% in additional costs... before any fuel savings. If LC-20 and FP-3000 increase fuel economy by .5% to 1% then savings could be $65 to $130 / 100K.
If there are fuel savings then Lubecontrol costs perhaps $155 to $90 / 100K or 1.2% to .7% more.
A spreadsheet would be better, but I think that this crude example tells me that using Lubecontrol isn't a bad bet financially.
I don't think Lubecontrol will hurt the engines, I expect it will keep the engines in slightly better shape overall.
The biggest problem for me with Lubecontrol is adding the ounce of LC-20 every 1000 miles, and FP-3000 every fillup... not so easy to do in all the cars in an extended family.
Better bottles that allowed a precised measurement and easy storage and use in each vehicle would do a lot to fix this problem since I might be able to get each driver to add LC-20 and FP-3000 to their cars.
I believe that ARX in a maintenance dose and Redline SI-1 or Techron used once every oil change will cost exactly the same over 100K. I may use this program for some vehicles that are rarely home.
I imagine the results will be similar in terms of keeping the engines in good shape,and I think I will avoid mpg decrease... although I'm not sure if I will see the same potential for mpg increase
I tend to agree. I've done used oil analysis with and without LC and I didn't see a single thing that would indicate that LC did a anything. Oxidation numbers were the same either way, and the TBN was just a pooped out. And strangely enough, the LC people never seem to do anything here to promote or defend their product.
I remember a recent valvetrain shot of a car ran on M1 and LC - that thing was spotless. I wonder how much of it was M1 and how much was LC use?
thanks again for the replies.
Is there anyone else that has tested LC using UOA that either shows that it made or did not make any significant differece to the results. thanks.
Is there anyone else that has tested LC using UOA that either shows that it made or did not make any significant differece to the results. thanks.
SR77, I've used LC since day1 on my 2004 Vue (w/the Honda 3.5L V6) and my 96 Saturn since about 100K or so. Peruse the used oil analysis section for those used oil analysis.
Also have valvetrain shots of the old Saturn at about 166K, #@$%!' spotless!
I believe LC makes a difference as it's solid chemistry and the 1.9L engines (the small Saturn) are known for either consuming oil (thankfully mine doesn't exhibit that) or needing valve guide seals. LC works as best as it can to keep insolubles in check...probably time for valve guide seals on that old model.
Again, it's solid chemistry. The proof is in the valvetrain shots and the lack of oil consumption on this model.
Also have valvetrain shots of the old Saturn at about 166K, #@$%!' spotless!
I believe LC makes a difference as it's solid chemistry and the 1.9L engines (the small Saturn) are known for either consuming oil (thankfully mine doesn't exhibit that) or needing valve guide seals. LC works as best as it can to keep insolubles in check...probably time for valve guide seals on that old model.
Again, it's solid chemistry. The proof is in the valvetrain shots and the lack of oil consumption on this model.
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