Lawn Tractor options

[Cujet]

I looked for a year, what I discovered is that the John Deere GT235 w/18HP kawasaki engine was a perfect fit for my needs.

Here are a few things I learned.

1, Frame thickness is a big factor in toughness, and there is a large variety in frame quality and gauge.
2, Transmissions, especially auto's vary considerably (by well over 90%) in load rating. With, as expected, the lower end models having far inferior load ratings. This makes a difference if you expect long life, go up hills or use any form of attachment.
3, Engine life is posted in a cryptic EPA code on the sticker, typically tractor sized engines are as follows.
A= 1000+ hours
B= 500 hours
C= 250 Hours
4, You really do get what you pay for, for instance, my neighbor's new cheap tractor lasted exactly 9 weeks before failure on a rough yard. My John Deere is still serving me well on just as rough a yard.
5, John Deere tractors also vary in quality, with the GT series being the bottom of the line for real JD quality. Also, brands such as JD offfer a choice of engines, make sure to buy the longest lasting.
6, Kawasaki engines are prefered by most Florida pro's.
7, Some Honda V twin engines have timing belts that jump time if rocks or stumps are accidently mowed. The engine must be totally disassembled for repair.

Chris

 

[Bill Kapaun]

quote:

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Originally posted by Cujet:
I looked for a year, what I discovered is that the John Deere GT235 w/18HP kawasaki engine was a perfect fit for my needs.

Here are a few things I learned.

1, Frame thickness is a big factor in toughness, and there is a large variety in frame quality and gauge.
2, Transmissions, especially auto's vary considerably (by well over 90%) in load rating. With, as expected, the lower end models having far inferior load ratings. This makes a difference if you expect long life, go up hills or use any form of attachment.
3, Engine life is posted in a cryptic EPA code on the sticker, typically tractor sized engines are as follows.
A= 1000+ hours
B= 500 hours
C= 250 Hours
4, You really do get what you pay for, for instance, my neighbor's new cheap tractor lasted exactly 9 weeks before failure on a rough yard. My John Deere is still serving me well on just as rough a yard.
5, John Deere tractors also vary in quality, with the GT series being the bottom of the line for real JD quality. Also, brands such as JD offfer a choice of engines, make sure to buy the longest lasting.
6, Kawasaki engines are prefered by most Florida pro's.
7, Some Honda V twin engines have timing belts that jump time if rocks or stumps are accidently mowed. The engine must be totally disassembled for repair.

Chris

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1. He just wants a lawnmower!
2. See 1 above.
3. That's emissions life, not engine life!
4. You don't always get what you pay for! You can often get the same model for more money. See 1 above.
5. Other brands also offer a choice of engines. Been to Sears lately?
6. So?
7. Any actual experience, or just hearsay? With decks being belt driven, the engine doesn't take nearly the shocks that a direct drive blade would provide when hitting a solod object.

 

[Cujet]

Good points Bill.

But I do have to say that the EPA rating is based on engine life. I did study this subject in depth during the EPA testing phase. What I learned is that a good rule of thumb is to double the EPA ratings to achieve ultimate engine life.

As you know, a somewhat worn engine will not operate as cleanly. Because the great majority of engines we currently purchase on lawn eqpt are not equipped with catalysts, EGR, evaporative systems, Fuel injection, air injection or other external emission controls. It is the engine/carburetor and it's internal design and integrity that is responsible for exhaust cleanliness

Maybe I should have said this:

"Here are a few things I think I have learned."

In any case, I always look for the best quality I know how to find. I have never been satisfied with the performance of cheap poorly built equipment.

Chris

 

[Bill Kapaun]

quote:

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Originally posted by Cujet:
Good points Bill.

But I do have to say that the EPA rating is based on engine life. I did study this subject in depth during the EPA testing phase. What I learned is that a good rule of thumb is to double the EPA ratings to achieve ultimate engine life.


In any case, I always look for the best quality I know how to find. I have never been satisfied with the performance of cheap poorly built equipment.

Chris

---

I wouldn't disagree about doubling the "emissions life" of an engine to get an indication of actual longevity.
But rules of thumb are generally somewhat vague. Some people can get much more life out of "identical" engines, depending on how they are used/ maintained.
Even in the above "worst case" scenario, how many years will it take someone with 1/2 acre to put 500 hours on a lawn tractor engine? The deck will probably rust out first!

I've never been satisfied with the performance of expensive poorly built equipment either.

 

[Scooby]

Like Cujet said...the EPA rating is for ENGINE life, NOT emission life.

 

[motorguy222]

Has anyone considered a Murray lawn/garden tractor.They have a wide range of products all the way up to I think 23 horse power.The parts are easier to find and they seem to have good products,actually they have many of the same features that more expensive(not better)mowers offer.They have the low cost basic riding mower all the way up to the large garden tractor.I have a 17 year old 11 horse 36 inch cut Murray that is still going strong

.It has a Briggs engine(best name in engines).I have had products with other engines and they are junk,Briggs is the best hands down.Check oout the Murrays,it doesnt hurt to look at one.

 

[NThomas]

Murry mowers stink. Dont buy one! that is all

 

[msparks]

kubota diesel.

I worked lawn care and had great success with kubota.

If I were to buy a new mower that is what i would get.

 

[Jelly]

quote:

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Originally posted by msparks:
kubota diesel.

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$$$

 

[Bror Jace]

I couldn't see getting a small diesel tractor unless you are going to mow something like 8-10 hours per week.

motorguy222, I'd take a Honda over a Briggs & Stratton any day.

Aren't tractors like Murray, MTD, Craftsman and some other store brands all made by one company? From what I've seen they are pretty flimsy machines.

Wish they still made Wheel Horse tractors like they used to ... cast iron front axle and all.

I agree with Jelly's comments ... but who makes greasable spindles anymore? Everything seems to be a sealed unit ... even on my (now defunct) Honda.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Jelly]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bror Jace:
Wish they still made Wheel Horse tractors like they used to ... cast iron front axle and all.

I agree with Jelly's comments ... but who makes greasable spindles anymore? Everything seems to be a sealed unit ... even on my (now defunct) Honda.

--- Bror Jace

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I know this one does:

Deere LT180

Also has your cast-iron front axle as well...

[ May 10, 2004, 11:10 PM: Message edited by: Jelly ]

 

[Jelly]

I've spent an hour or two around lawn care equipment, and if you plan on keeping your riding mower for more than a few years, I'd strongly suggest you purchase one with greaseable deck spindles...

 

[bob555]

I've mowed with some pretty nice commercial equipement and some really cheap mowers...and I think that for the average homeowner the cheapo MTD/Craftsman tractors are probably the best value...even the splash lubed briggs engines seem good for 500 hours or more if well cared for, and that's probably at least 8-10 years for the average user. Heck a relative of mine has an abused 8HP/36" deck Simplicity with over 800 hours...including a summer of using brake fluid for top up oil

As much as I like the cute diesel Grasshoppers and similar, I still find it more amusing to see people mowning a 1 acre yard with a >$2,500 tractor.

 

[msparks]

Can I also suggest a Dixie Chopper

Saw these on TV last night as they featured the Dixie chopper on American Chopper

Here is a thread I already started in the By-pass section:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=36&t=000097

http://www.dixiechopper.info/commercial.php

 

[Brett Miller]

Bror,

Wheel Horse still makes the 300 Classic series that accept all the old attachments. The all cast iron Kohler, however, is gone forever.

 

[andyfish]

The suggestions are interesting across this thread. Remember all that this person has little to mow 1/2 acre and its flat. A Sears tractor is more than adequate as any other in the price range. The tractor is not going to be very stressed in this situation and will likely last with basic maintenance.

 

[NThomas]

Yes, he does not need a Commercial piece of equipment. But do not go out and buy a piece of junk either. You will pay just as much or more over the years for that cheapo right now!!!

No the MTD., Murry, Sears are not made by the same Co. - MTD and Murry make their own mowers. Sears mowers are made by EYP (formerly AYP) You also have units like Simplicity (which just bought Snapper), Toro, Ariens, Kubota, etc.

Some of the mowers out there are built by MTD - such as White, Yard Machines, TroyBuilt, Cub Cadet. And i would not suggest any of these - sorry.

1 more thing to think about that is always overlooked - Quality of cut!! The better mowers generally leave a nicer cut. This is one thing that is very important to me.

Good Luck and keep us updated on what you get!

 

[Bror Jace]

Jelly that John Deere looks nice and the price isn't looney tunes ... but I'm not as confident with JD equipment as I'd like to be.

We have a 1984 JD 1032 snowblower from 1982. It spent at least 5-6 of those years in storage, never being used. It probably sees 20 hours of use each year ... on average. Still works OK but nearly every control has broken numerous times and it seems that we've replaced 1/2 the main parts ... including the main drive axle, chains, belts (several times), etc ...

Looking at new 1032s, they seem even cheaper ... especially the controls.

Our '96 Honda tractor is almost like new. A couple small dents and scratches on the seat say otherwise. Machine has gone through 1 mower deck drive belt, 1 air filter, 1 fuel filter and a set of spark plugs plugs. That's it (leaving out annual oil & filter changes, of course).

We have about a few acres of lawn ... but almost all of it is in full sun and with sandy soil, we can get away with mowing every 2-3 weeks once the dry summer is here in earnest. Figure ~3 hours to mow everything, with about 15 mowings (average) per year from May to October.

We also use the tractor in the spring and fall for hauling yard waste to the edges of the property. That's at least 10 more hours per year.

In short, we put about 55-60 hours on our tractor each year ... so it should be at about the 500 mile mark. Last year, I replaced the HST fluid in it just to be on the safe side.

It's not perfect, though. I'd love to be able to grease more moving parts on it (as mentioned previously) and servicing is much tougher than it should be. I'd kill to have an extra inch here and there.

Engine innards are spotless and it still runs like new ... but cold starting is laborious. Have to crank it over wayyy more than I should.

I suppose we might be OK with a cheap tractor from Murray, MTD, etc ... because I baby everything I own ... but are probably better off with a higher-quality machine.

--- Bror Jace

 

[Bror Jace]

Brett, it’s been a while since I’ve even seen a Wheel Horse tractor. I know that the well-used one I saw 10+ years ago was really, really well built. It was much tougher (the frame, etc …) than the new Ford / New Holland 3 cylinder diesel I was using at the time at my maintenance job.

I’m not particularly a fan of Kohler engines (cast iron or other) so if they’re gone for good, that doesn’t bother me much.

andyfish, that’s good to keep in mind but I’d err on the side of quality … just as NThomas points out.

“Some of the mowers out there are built by MTD - such as White, Yard Machines, TroyBuilt, Cub Cadet. And I would not suggest any of these - sorry.”

This is what I was thinking. I didn’t mean to imply that there was only one company making all the small tractors but that there was one company making a lot of them … including many of the store brands.

“One more thing to think about that is always overlooked - quality of cut!! The better mowers generally leave a nicer cut.”

True, and that brings up a slightly amusing story. Our Honda was fine for a while ... then we noticed the cut was looking rather poor (erratic). Blades seemed fine. They were reasonably sharp ... not bent. Blade spindles were not bent and there was no discernable wobble when they turned. ***?

It turned out that the tire pressures were all over the place. A couple were 5+ psi low. I checked and filled them all and that’s what the problem turned out to be.

Even if they look OK, it’s best to check your tire pressures at the beginning of each season. Get them as close to spec as possible before mowing.

--- Bror Jace

 

[NThomas]

Sorry Motorguy but my experience comes from working on these machines everyday.
You are lucky that your machine lasted that long!! I have a few people that come in every year for parts for their Murray Tractors. The quality is not there and you can tell by looking at the unit at your big box store.
If that is what your looking for then buy it, it may last along time, OR more then likely youll be puttin money in my pocket!