Kitchen remodeling question: 15" D wall cabinet?

[PandaBear]

Wife has been complaining about the tile counter top grouts for years and finally gave an ultimatum on replacing countertop with quartz. The kitchen came with the house and is now 23 years old. Cardell thermofoil cabinets top and bottom with an island and in reasonable shape (minor water damage to the sink box when the faucet leak last time, just chipped paint I think).

The local stone fabricator installers charge about $5k for my counter top and island with Silestone / Caesarstone (25-lifetime warranty), or $3k with generic prefab with 2 years warranty, and about $1200 labor to install the wall tiles (subway mix with mosaic). If I want new cabinets estimate would be around $4 (Chinese mid range) - 6k (Mid Continent / Ultra) for pre-assembled, installation extra (don't know how much yet).

The microwave hood on the range is sticking out of the standard 12" D wall cabinets, and my wife wants to replace them with 15" D instead. I was looking and couldn't find such a thing unless I go custom. Is there such a thing? If my microwave sticks out so much how do others install their microwave / hood with the standard 12" D cabinet?

I'm starting to think that it is probably cheaper to get new laminate every 5 years and forget about quartz. The project would likely cost about 15k-20k depends on how it turns out, and the next owner of the house decades down the road will just tear it out again to fit the wife's style. This happened to my boss, his wife replaced the brand new countertop and wall tiles for $12k because she doesn't like it.

 

[dishdude]

When I remodeled, the contractor wanted to put 2x4s behind the cabinet over the stove to keep the microwave from sticking out. They claimed it would look good but I declined.

 

[Donald]

I have tile countertops and I like them but wife not so much. However to sell my house as a high end house I think I need to have quartz counters and a double oven range.

Selling when I retire in 4 yrs.

 

[dja4260]

I'm looking at my microwave right now. It sticks out 2.5in~ from the face of the cabinets. It never bothered me and is standard. Like all my home remodeling work. I notice all my imperfections. No one else does...

 

[pandus13]

Panda,
why are thinking about the next owners?

Does the wife reached/ earned the right to the upgrade? (moaning does not qualify, but raising and carting the kids around plus taking care of parents.....?)

now: the year is 2017! really tile countertops? are they pink? original 1960?

(done busting your...)

suggestions beside local stone store/installers:
-other local stone store/installers/showrooms; did you serach enough?
-cabinet showroom design places; did you search enough
-RTA (ready to assemble) places; did you search enough
-LOWEs
-IKEA
-(i thought you are in CA, the land of straight from the shipping container construction supplies: stone, RTA cabinets, etc FLip-Or-Flop ect)

if i'm not mistaken, regular cabinets come in 3" increases.
Custom comes in whatever you pay for.

since you want to re-use the microwave, with some paint on top, does anything qualifies as re-usable?

or you can order most of the cabinets "normal", and have a cabinet shop build you the deep ones.

now, do i detect you don't really want to part of so much money?

money is money, but if Momma Bear is not Happy..................................

 

[pandus13]

oh a good one:
can you live in a construction zone? or momma Bear?
are you sure the faucet leaked only on the sink cabinet?

 

[JHZR2]

Laminate is very functional. It can look fine or cheap depending upon what is selected.

I love the look of quartz. We got granite becsuse we loved the variations and uniqueness of what we chose.

Id go quartz over some very consistent and standard granite material. But if you can find some nice and unique stone pattern, it can look pretty amazing.

You coukd also cosider soapstone, depending upon your colors and kitchen style. Ive seen some that looks wonderful.

 

[pandus13]

like JH said, a lot of really expensive kitchens where made with just IKEA.
their countertops could go your 5 years-and replace....
now:
-is our wife tall? make sure cabinets are installed at the right heigth for her
-soft closing drawers/cabinet doors should not cost you much extra. could save you some kids/wife in a hurry pinched fingers
-choose cabinet and quartz colors wisely. you can have ANYTHING. question: how will it look in your current kitchen light? do you need to improve lighting?

Do you cook asian?
i would move the microwave in the island and replace with a good venthood styled on asian cooking (2 motors with good fans with oil collecting and 6-8" exaust pipe)

i think lowes.com has a really low 20/20 web plugin where you can try to simulate your kitchen. ikea too.

can i thrust you with a sketchup?

a bit more info on the style momma bear wants could unleash our BITOG creative juices....

 

[Johnny2Bad]

To save money, replace the cabinet doors only. Paint the actual cabinets, or for more expense, you can use veneer in any wood finish you prefer.

Use the cash you saved to have someone (a finish carpenter) fabricate your special cabinets to the depth you want in the location you need it only.

I like Corian® as an alternative counter material and it is much more cost effective than stone or quartz. It is also less expensive to install as you can make seamless joints with that material.

IKEA offers a wide variety of cabinets, doors and hardware. They do have inexpensive finishes but their premium finishes don't look cheap by any means.

I built my own kitchen cabinets and doors, it was easy with a table saw and a router. Including the tools I bought it was under $2500 all in.

 

[PandaBear]

Thanks guys, I know I can count on the info from you all.

Here're some more info:

This is an L shape kitchen, meaning one side (100" wide) is the exterior window with dish washer, sink base, then lazy Susan corner, no wall cabinets on this side. Then the other side (100" wide not including fridge, 150" wide including fridge) start with the corner lazy Susan, 15" drawer base, 30" range, 15" drawer base, and fridge. On this wall it has 30" tall double door wall cabinet, single wall door cabinet, range hood exhaust box (2 doors no shelf), single wall door cabinet, and 15" tall double door wall cabinet (on top of fridge). Then an island with a double door base (36" x 24") and surface with 43" x 36" and overhang on 2 sides.

To answer some questions:

1) Why tiles? It was build that way in 1994, the whole block has this configuration unless it was remodelled.

2) Why the wall cabinets depth change? We used to have the microwave that's 12" deep and it died, and we put in a 15" deep microwave in its place. The first one we had to return because the mounting wont work on a 12" cabinet. The 2nd one that we are now using will mount, but only onto the frame of the cabinet / exhaust box above. Mama bear complains about the lack of kitchen storage space, so she prefer 15" if we replace cabinets.

3) Why complain about it now? Well, mama bear complained about it for about 10 years already and the grouts are not getting any better in condition, and starts growing and staining to a point that it is about to go bio hazard. Mama bear does drug company lab experiment for a living so she knows bacteria and fungal growth when she sees it.

4) Cooking: Asian cooking once a week, usually 1 oven full of baking for 1 hour, 2 stir fry veges, 1 stir fry shrimp, 1 soup, 1 pot of rice from rice cooker, and the daily steaming / reheating of left over at dinner time for about 30 mins. The daily steaming has curled the thermofoil door on one wall cabinet, but not the reason we want to change. The kitchen is too small to use large Asian cooking hood like Pacific and Sakura, we'll be staying with the OTR microwave for the foreseeable future.

5) Countertop material: we both like clean and durable surface, I dislike corian (too dull), wife likes the quartz better than natural stone. Color we like the best is beige small grain size like Caesarstone Ocean Foam, Silestone Blanco Maple, Sequel Parchment, and other Generic egg shell type color with slightly bigger grain size. They are typically $910-1150 per standard slab size, labor is typically $1800-2200 for the job. If we use generic prefab quartz with 2 year warranty it would cost about $3k. Main concern about quartz is UV fading and (if going to cheap Chinese quartz with only 2 years warranty) smear / smudge over time.

6) Cabinet conditions: need to replace hinges, some chips on the edges and corner, foil surface has yellowed a bit, one wall cabinet door has steam curled foil edge, minor paint cracking and chipping here and there, knobs and wire pulls have been replaced from gold color to brush aluminum look about 10 years ago, look good so far. Overall they look used, but not too used, and certainly not stunning. I want the quartz to last 25 years, and if I don't change the cabinets now I don't think the current 23 year old MDF cabinets can last another 25 years.

Style wise, we love the current design, just wanted to replace the tile counter top. Adding more storage (deeper wall cabinet) and replacing yellowed and pealing door / drawer foil laminate would be nice too if they are not breaking the bank. The current estimate price of the house is around 1.3M, a mid range price in the valley and school district, and is likely going to be only a 200-300k house if it is in mid continent. My biggest concern about Ikea cabinet is if I put in a cheap kitchen it may affect the selling price years down the road. People here aren't too hard wood aware and they probably couldn't tell a Home Depot cabinet from custom cabinet if they are both new and has quartz countertop.

Wasn't expecting a full replacement that will likely cost $12-15k that I'm forecasting right now, and in the worst case we may only replace the countertop and island top with generic 2 prefab quartz for $3k.


Mama bear wanted to know if it is possible to start the job on 4/14 and end in 2 weeks, because inlaw is traveling and we can have their place when our house is worked on. So far seems to push it.

 

[edwardh1]

Quartz is good stuff.
Granite will stain.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

Even with cheaper or mid-grade cabinets, usually you can get 15" D in a few or many sizes. I was warned by my cabinet supplier about having the microwave door flush with the upper cabinet; leading to possible damage from steam each time the door is opened.

I went with 12" deep upper cabinets (expect about fridge) that are 36" tall, with trim work/molding to bring it to the ceiling. I choose a small microwave (Sharp) that only sticks outs 2".

Counter is granite... quartz was being pushed as the new-trend and granted it looked good and offered a different look. However I couldn't get past the $$$ and it looking "fake" do to the uniformity (formica-esq).

 

[pandus13]

if they (your demo workers) pull the tile counter, if you want to keep existing cabinets, there should be not crowbar used. otherwise you will have damaged lower cabinets
i'm going to guess countertop tiles is a sandwich of 1/2" or 3/4" plywood, 1/2" cementboard with wire-net , thinset/mastick and tiles.

check if replacement cabinets are available for the over-the range (the damage is not only from heat but steam, which means = YOUR MICROWAVE'S SQUIREL CAGE FAN IS INADEQUATE!) and sink area + chipped + funny colors ones. with the countertop out off the way, replacement here and there may be possible.....

then you just replace the doors + hinges

if more space needed, they make wall cabinest 36"-42" inch tall.

can you add a pantry cabinet? 96" tall?

for venthood you don't need restaurant/commecrial grade; they make 30" and 36" wide with 2 motors. actually the sound running may be less then the squirel cage of the microwave. what is important is also exaust size: 6-8". just search for korean / indian cooking venthoods in your area....

if you keep the sink+faucet, change the water hoses to faucet, dishwasher and fridge as preventive measure

ikea cabinets done right could look good; google images is your inspiration. but to take stone, they need to be reinforced + glued + stable base (no plastic legs)
there is a company in CA who makes custom doors for ikea
but i thought in CA you have access to similar modern cabinets who may be made sturdier from plywood....

your April deadline, has to do with how busy the local tradesmen are... don't use a handyman unless you or parents worked with before....the one i know have a 2 months out schedule now, and about 5 months out in the summer....

 

[sleddriver]

1. Grout can be removed & replaced, with any color you like. Very important to seal it.
2. Corian can easily be polished to a glossy, glass-like finish. I know because I've done it.
3. Problem to consider with shiny, glassy kitchen countertops is depending on ceiling light placement, they'll reflect glare right into your eyes while you're looking down. I don't like that. Particularly when I'm using a scary-sharp knife.
4. My current countertops are white laminate. They'll soon be replaced with Corian. I'll be doing the work too as it's a familiar material and I have the necessary tools. Personally, I wouldn't use granite. Quartz maybe, but it's very $$$$.
5. Foil laminate door/cabinet surfaces...??? Never seen that.
6. Timeline. Many contractors over promise on the front end then over excuse on the back. Caveat Emptor...

 

[PandaBear]

The tiles and porcelain sink are worn out too (starts turning grey due to scratches instead of white) and started chipping, it is not just the grout.

The cost of labor is about the same between the stones, regardless of quartz or granite, actually granite may even be more expensive due to matching pattern between slabs. Corian labor may be cheaper due to less fabrication risk, but you are talking about $300-500 difference when the whole job parts and labor is around $5k.

We will be reusing the microwave (8 years old), dish washer (7 years old), faucet (4 years old), fridge (24 years). Above the cabinet is the wall with bathtub and other piping. 30" tall cabinet is already the tallest we can fit. The kitchen is small and we cannot add any more storage without making it feel crowded. It is next to a nook that we have used as dining room (the original dining room is now part of the larger living room).

Lighting glare is not a concern, we have our blind down most of the time and our countertop and island are usually full of stuff to begin with. If it is not because of the worn tiles, sink, and grouts we would probably not even care.

Most of our steam come from the old rice cooker steaming left over, and boiling pasta / noodle, rather than the microwave. So far the damage is only due to rice cooker but the cabinets, wall and base, are quite greasy. I'm afraid that no matter what I put in, if it is white it will yellow and needs regular sanding and painting.

 

[pkunk]

Originally Posted By: bmwpowere36m3
Even with cheaper or mid-grade cabinets, usually you can get 15" D in a few or many sizes. I was warned by my cabinet supplier about having the microwave door flush with the upper cabinet; leading to possible damage from steam each time the door is opened.


This... Most over range microwaves have a top vent that needs to be kept in the open.
I've been a cabinetmaker for over 20 years and I wouldn't recommend a deeper upper cabinet.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: pkunk
Originally Posted By: bmwpowere36m3
Even with cheaper or mid-grade cabinets, usually you can get 15" D in a few or many sizes. I was warned by my cabinet supplier about having the microwave door flush with the upper cabinet; leading to possible damage from steam each time the door is opened.


This... Most over range microwaves have a top vent that needs to be kept in the open.
I've been a cabinetmaker for over 20 years and I wouldn't recommend a deeper upper cabinet.


So is the moisture coming from the range under it? or the food in microwave door? or the venting? My OTR microwave is venting inside the faux cabinet above it to the exterior of the house, but I do see small amount of grease coating inside this cabinet.

 

[pkunk]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: pkunk
Originally Posted By: bmwpowere36m3
Even with cheaper or mid-grade cabinets, usually you can get 15" D in a few or many sizes. I was warned by my cabinet supplier about having the microwave door flush with the upper cabinet; leading to possible damage from steam each time the door is opened.


This... Most over range microwaves have a top vent that needs to be kept in the open.
I've been a cabinetmaker for over 20 years and I wouldn't recommend a deeper upper cabinet.


So is the moisture coming from the range under it? or the food in microwave door? or the venting? My OTR microwave is venting inside the faux cabinet above it to the exterior of the house, but I do see small amount of grease coating inside this cabinet.

Look at the top of the OTR MW and you will probably see vents. They cool the MW cabinet and shouldn't be blocked