Kerry's Vietnam Unit Upset

motorguy222 · Jul 24, 2004

The following are peices taken from www.swiftboat.com These are Kerry's fellow servicemens letters regarding Kerry's tour of duty in Vietnam.
The site also has a lot more information regarding Kerry from those that he 'served' with.
The site also includes a letter asking Kerry to stop using the groups 'unit' picture in his campaign.

"While in Cam Rahn Bay, he trained on several 24-hour indoctrination missions, and one special skimmer operation with my most senior and trusted Lieutenant. The briefing from some members of that crew the morning after revealed that they had not received any enemy fire, and yet Lt.(jg) Kerry informed me of a wound -- he showed me a scratch on his arm and a piece of shrapnel in his hand that appeared to be from one of our own M-79s. It was later reported to me that Lt.(jg) Kerry had fired an M-79, and it had exploded off the adjacent shoreline. I do not recall being advised of any medical treatment, and probably said something like 'Forget it.' He later received a Purple Heart for that scratch, and I have no information as to how or whom.

Lt.(jg) Kerry was allowed to return to the good old USA after 4 months and a few days in-country, and then he proceeded to betray his former shipmates, calling them criminals who were committing atrocities. Today we are here to tell you that just the opposite is true. Our rules of engagement were quite strict, and the officers and men of Swift often did not even return fire when they were under fire if there was a possibility that innocent people -- fishermen, in a lot of cases -- might be hurt or injured. The rules and the good intentions of the men increased the possibility that we might take friendly casualties."

-- Commander Grant Hibbard, USN
(retired)

In 1971, '72, for almost 18 months, he stood before the television audiences and claimed that the 500,000 men and women in Vietnam, and in combat, were all villains -- there were no heroes. In 2004, one hero from the Vietnam War has appeared, running for President of the United States and Commander-in-Chief. It just galls one to think about it."

-- Captain George Elliott, USN (retired)

[ July 24, 2004, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: motorguy222 ]

k1xv · Jul 24, 2004

At least they remember him being there, unlike our present Commander in Chief, who claims to have served out the end of his National Guard stint with the Alabama unit, but nobody can produce anybody who remembers anything about him there, not even seeing him. Instead of flying a "Stealth" fighter, he was a "Stealth" pilot.

I was of military age in those days. It was impossible to get into a National Guard Unit unless you had somebody with lots of pull who would move you to the top of the list.

GWB should be given a medal for enduring a dental exam while in service to his country.

brianl703 · Jul 24, 2004

Try checking with anyone from my high school to see if they remember me. I doubt anyone would, but I guarantee you that I was there.

Mystic · Jul 24, 2004

Even if Bush was not present a SINGLE DAY in the National Guard (and he was) to me that is not as bad as what Kerry did. Kerry served four months in Vietnam, came home, and before Congress ridiculed the men and women of our armed forces who served in Vietnam. He said that American soldiers had committed atrocities, but then he later said that he had just heard about such things, and not actually witnessed anything.

keith · Jul 24, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by k1xv:
At least they remember him being there, unlike our present Commander in Chief, who claims to have served out the end of his National Guard stint with the Alabama unit ... yadadada ...

Still getting your news from Terry "Global Crossing" McAuliffe?

Bush and the National Guard: Case Closed

"Lt. Bush is an exceptional fighter interceptor pilot and officer."

"an exceptionally fine young officer and pilot who continually flies intercept missions with the unit to increase his proficiency even further."

"clearly stands out as a top notch fighter interceptor pilot."

"a natural leader whom his contemporaries look to for leadership."

"The controversy over Bush's service centers on what his critics call 'the period in question,' that is, the time from May 1972 until May 1973. What is not mentioned as often is that that period was in fact Bush's fifth year in the Guard, one that followed four years of often intense service."

"A number of Guard members at the base say they do not remember seeing Bush among the roughly 900 men who served there during that time, another member, a retired lieutenant named John Calhoun, says he remembers seeing Bush at the base several times."

"The records indicate that, despite his move to Alabama, Bush met his obligation to the Guard in the 1972-73 year."

Keith.

DockHoliday · Jul 24, 2004

What I don't like about Kerry is that all he ever does is knock everyone else. He has done this his entire profesional life. When asked what he would do, his plans sound very similar to the Bush plans/actions that he has already bashed. Not trying to get into a Bush vs Kerry debate, but I really have no respect for Kerry. And to have a VP that got rich by suing doctors using unproven medical theories makes me think that our medical costs are going to go even higher.

[ July 24, 2004, 10:42 PM: Message edited by: DockHoliday ]

Mystic · Jul 24, 2004

I am getting tired of people who berate President Bush for his National Guard service. He did serve in the National Guard and at least he did not go before Congress and call the men and women of our armed forces savages.

If you want to see a savage, then take a look at some of those videos that the Islamic terrorists have released where they cut a man's head off with a knife. There are people here who seem to be able to justify this behavior, but carry on endlessly about what happened in an Iraqi prison with a handful of American soldiers involved.

Well, I condemn both. I condemn what those american soldiers did, and I also condemn what the terrorists did. Anybody disagree?

ToyotaNSaturn · Jul 24, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by keith:
Still getting your news from Terry "Global Crossing" McAuliffe?

Bush and the National Guard: Case Closed

Keith, thank you. There's soooo much misinformation being thrown about by Satan, that is, Mr. Carville and his assitants, McAulifee and Co.

It's amazing what happens to hearsay once the truth surfaces. Such as the topic of this thread. The Dems aren't throwing around Kerry's war record as much as they once were.

brianl703 · Jul 25, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Mystic:
If you want to see a savage, then take a look at some of those videos that the Islamic terrorists have released where they cut a man's head off with a knife. There are people here who seem to be able to justify this behavior, but carry on endlessly about what happened in an Iraqi prison with a handful of American soldiers involved.

By having different standards of behavior for American soldiers and Islamic terrorists, it would be easy to believe that those who justify that behavior by the Islamic terrorists think that the Islamic terrorists are sub-human and not capable of controlling their own behavior.

I'm sure that's not the impression those "concerned liberals" wish to convey.

k1xv · Jul 25, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by brianl703:
Try checking with anyone from my high school to see if they remember me. I doubt anyone would, but I guarantee you that I was there.

==========
Not ONE person would remember you from high school? You had no friends at all? No enemies either? You just blended into the scenery, like another empty chair? Come on, get real.

Neither the Reps or the Dems have been able to find any peers who remember him there at all.

And I never realized that the fifth year of National Guard service was a holiday. As I recall, Bush did not take his flight physical (wonder why) meaning that he could not fly. Essentially, he rendered himself unfit for service.

Call it what you want, but it is still not a record that I would call distinguished. Instead of all this negative crap about the candidate you do not want to see elected, how about some positive stuff about the candidate you want to see elected?

T-Keith · Jul 25, 2004

Does Bush have a TV spot saying how he served honorably and everyone he served with supports him?

-T

labman · Jul 25, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by k1xv:
Instead of all this negative crap about the candidate you do not want to see elected, how about some positive stuff about the candidate you want to see elected?

Good Lord! When it comes to negative crap what about all these AWOL charges over what is no more than a few missed drills if that, over 30 years ago?

Pitbull · Jul 25, 2004

Opinions are like ******** everyone has them and some stink. Instead of posting all of this BS just go and vote for who you want to be President. I doubt any of these posts will change anyones opinion but I know it's fun to think you are right and others need to sit at your feet and also become wise. What I think is interesting is that if you live in a Republican state and are a Democrat your vote won't really mean anything and vice-versa. I'm glad I'm Independant and live in Missouri where there is not a majority. My vote will actually mean something.

k1xv · Jul 26, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by labman:
[/qb]

Good Lord! When it comes to negative crap what about all these AWOL charges over what is no more than a few missed drills if that, over 30 years ago? [/QB][/QUOTE]

==========
Don't impute to me statements that I never made. I never said anything about being AWOL. Rather, what I said is that nobody among his peers remembers seeing him, and that his failure to take his annual physical rendered him unable and unfit to serve as a pilot, as without the physical, he was grounded.

AWOL means "absent without leave". I think he got the leave, albeit informally. In other words, the fact that he was not showing up was known by his superiors, and tacitly accepted by them. He was a man of privilege, and different rules seem to have applied to him. But to me, not taking the physical and therefore being disqualified to fly is a dereliction of duty. Is it common for pilots in Air National Guard units to not take the flight physical, thereby being disqualified from flying? Why did he not take the physical? Too busy? Or was there another explanation? Why was it tolerated? The fact that no peers remember him is, to me, a strong indicator that he was seldom or never around.

And as for some of Kerry's comrades not liking him, I was a supervisor with over 20 professionals reporting to me. Most liked me, but some did not. Anyone in responsibility who makes decisions that affect others will have to make some hard decisions that not everyone will like.

And before anyone thinks I am an aging hippy Vermonter, I am a Patron Life Member of the NRA and just shot two squirrels today from my front porch.

And the best President in my lifetime was Dwight D. Eisenhower, who fully understood war and all it entailed.

sprintman · Jul 26, 2004

He refused to take the physical after mandatory testing was introduced as he was an alcoholic. Simple explanation. And why do you shoot squirrels, are they a pest?

Mystic · Jul 26, 2004

I am a member of the NRA and I would NEVER shoot any animal without a reason. I do not consider the random shooting of animals as sport. I would soot a deer or an elk for food. But I would not mount the head so as to show everybody what a mighty hunter I am. Just my thoughts and beliefs.

We are one with nature. We are a part of this world. I would rather photograph deer and elk rather then shoot them.

k1xv · Jul 26, 2004

See, you guys are more bleeding heart liberals than me

You assumed I shot them for no reason. Not true.
The two squirrels that were shot were extremely acrobatic ones that were attacking my bird feeders. They were able to overcome all kinds of barriers and measures and the birds were "starving".

All of the remaining squirrel and chipmunk population is well treated. They even have their own ground level feeders.

Although I am a Patron Life Member, I do not believe in sport hunting for myself or on my property. It is posted, and we have moose and other large creatures coming through at least weekly.

I also have two house cats that catch the occasional field mouse that comes into the house.

k1xv · Jul 26, 2004

Sprintman:

I believe your explanation to be 100% correct.

TheTanSedan · Jul 26, 2004

. . and because he "failed" the exam, the million-plus dollars of taxpayer monies for training and readiness was wasted on someone who, as he came from privilege, should have at least had the decency to serve with something approaching competency, dare I say "distinction".

So handy that his daddy was in those years UN Ambassador and then moved up to the Republican Party Chairmanship; was much favored by the incumbent Richard Nixon and later Gerald Ford.

Generals read the political tea leaves, and know when to let things be.

motorguy222 · Jul 26, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Pitbull:
Opinions are like ******** everyone has them and some stink. Instead of posting all of this BS just go and vote for who you want to be President. I doubt any of these posts will change anyones opinion but I know it's fun to think you are right and others need to sit at your feet and also become wise. What I think is interesting is that if you live in a Republican state and are a Democrat your vote won't really mean anything and vice-versa. I'm glad I'm Independant and live in Missouri where there is not a majority. My vote will actually mean something.

Pitbull,if we cant post what we think then should you be able to post your thoughts? We all have our opinions and when we have the opportunity,we want to state them.
If you don't like a thread,don't participate in it,no one is making you do so.
When I or someone else place our opinion and in many instances,a fact,in a post on this site,we do so to share our opinions and give information to others.We may or may not change any one else's opinion but we at least have stated ours.This is what makes the USA a great and wonderful place to live.We have the right to speak our opinion.
If you don't want to know our opinions on this thread,don't read them.If you don't like what is being said,give your opinion without saying that others opinions are worthless.You could also go to another topic.
Pitbull,many that have read your above quoted thread may feel the same about you and your opinions ,however you still have the right to speak them.It is your right,we ALL have freedom of speech.
If when we speak our opinions,we are told by someone else that they are worthless _______,then the one saying such needs to ask themselves,Is my behavior correct and or appropriate?
The one saying such is speaking their opinion,yet they say the opinions of others are essentially worthless.Ironic is it not?
The opinions of people are not worthless.When someone says that they are,their behavior is inappropriate.
Why? Because they are essentially saying that the thoughts of others are not worthy to be spoken and or heard.
This is wrong.

Also,I am a Republican in a state where Democrats outnumber us by almost 2 to 1.My vote DOES count.Our state voted for Bush in the last election and he still has a very high rating with the people here.
Pitbull,if we all thought as you do,we would never vote,because according to you,it wouldn't matter anyway.

Kerry's Vietnam Unit Upset

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