Just got alignment done at Expert Tire

[rastoma]

I deliver mail part time in my 93 S10 Blazer 4x4 so it gets beat up a lot especially on the right side as I go off the payment constantly to reach boxes, go in small ditches, pot holes, etc.

A couple of weeks ago I heard a 'pop', not like a tire but something else. When I would turn it would pop again. Come to find out I busted the lower RH lower ball joint. Also it would pull HARD to the right. If I let go of the wheel it would be off the road in about one second literally.

They are factory ball joints so you have to grind off the attachment/rivet/whatever to remove. A local tire shop (which does great work) said you need to replace both sides at once and also my idler arm and pittarm were worn. $514.67 to replace both ball joints, arms and alignment.

I work part time so it would have been difficult to pay that out right now. I know a 'good 'ole country boy' who has worked on Chevys probably since he could walk and could do the work blindfolded. BUT instead of just lowers, he recommended to do upper and lower and both sides due to the age. I bought the parts and he did the work for $100.

So he finished the job and I drove it. The pull to the right did not change. So he and I look and we definitely could see the front RH tire pointing to the right a little and the LH was straight. I know you can't align a front end by eyeballing it, but this seemed obvious so he tried adjusting it very slightly until I could get to a shop for a real alignment. No change.

On the 4th since I was off and wanted to see my dad, I went to Columbia, TN and figured I'd drop it off at a place and while waiting visit family. I shouldn't have drove it 2 1/2 hours in the condition it was but I called that morning and a few shops there were open and NOTHING even close to me was. And I HAD to work the next day so figured it was the best option.

My dad recommended Expert Tire, he buys all his tires there and gets alignments done. Drop it off, about 4 hours later they call and say it's done. I leave and immediately notice there's ZERO change in the pull. I'm ticked. I go back and sternly ask did no one drive it after it was done? He said they don't drive them typically and showed me the printout where it was BAD out of alignment but now was all within spec.

So he says they need to swap the two front tires and then drive it to test again to rule out the tires. As the guy puts it on the rack he calls me out there and says he's sorry for missing it the first time but my LEFT tire was bad. I looked and couldn't see anything wrong then he spun it by hand and it wobbled. He said they call it a pregnant tire. But the bulge covered HALF the tire and was not huge so you couldn't really see it until you saw the wobble it made.

I had them put on my full size spare, then drove it and it was the best drive I've ever had in this vehicle since I bought it a year ago. Apparently the tire had been bad the whole time but initially just caused a rough ride, which I attributed it to being old shocks or stiff springs since it's a 4x4 (first 4x4 I've ever owned). And by chance it got worse when the ball joint broke.

Man it drives like a dream now. I can let go of the wheel and it won't even think about leaving the road.

I wish we had a Expert Tire or Firestone close to where I live (they are affiliated somehow) as I would have gotten the lifetime alignment.

So, I got another friend who's dad owns a used car lot and gets wholesale prices at Advance, and got all the parts mentioned above for $98 and some change. $100 labor to install. $69.99 for alignment. $547.67 - $267.99 = saved $279.68. It pays to shop around

 

[duaneb9729]

Thats wonderful!

 

[SLCraig]

Very nice. Wish I could get my local shop to get my alignment right on my Saturn!

 

[mechanicx]

Good going with that price, plus you got all 4 ball joints replaced. Well there is a lessen in there that when diagnosing a pull always start with checking the front tires and swapping them first left to right (rear tires usually don't cause pull but other issues). That also gives you a chance to check suspension parts for play when it's jacked up.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: SLCraig
Very nice. Wish I could get my local shop to get my alignment right on my Saturn!

It only took 4 alignments to get it right on my Saturn.

But they weren't willing to adjust the caster, even in the end.

 

[occupant]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Good going with that price, plus you got all 4 ball joints replaced. Well there is a lessen in there that when diagnosing a pull always start with checking the front tires and swapping them first left to right (rear tires usually don't cause pull but other issues). That also gives you a chance to check suspension parts for play when it's jacked up.


Excellent idea. This is awesome advice.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
.......
But they weren't willing to adjust the caster, even in the end.


Why? Was it because the factory didn't provide adjustment? If so, did they indicate that you needed to buy a camber kit that would allow for adjustment?

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Originally Posted By: The Critic
.......
But they weren't willing to adjust the caster, even in the end.


Why? Was it because the factory didn't provide adjustment? If so, did they indicate that you needed to buy a camber kit that would allow for adjustment?

According to the GM service manual, caster can be adjusted on my vehicle by slotting the three holes that the upper strut mount studs go into. Obviously, either the Hunter WinAlign software did not mention this, or the tech knew and had no interest in performing the adjustment.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Originally Posted By: The Critic
.......
But they weren't willing to adjust the caster, even in the end.


Why? Was it because the factory didn't provide adjustment? If so, did they indicate that you needed to buy a camber kit that would allow for adjustment?

According to the GM service manual, caster can be adjusted on my vehicle by slotting the three holes that the upper strut mount studs go into. Obviously, either the Hunter WinAlign software did not mention this, or the tech knew and had no interest in performing the adjustment.


Bottonline was that the factory did not provide any built in adjustment, so the tech didn't do it - correct?

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: CapriRacer

Bottonline was that the factory did not provide any built in adjustment, so the tech didn't do it - correct?


I guess that depends on the definition of "factory adjustment." The adjustment can be performed by slotting holes; no aftermarket parts are needed for this task.

The procedure is in the factory service manual, so in my opinion, it is a "factory" authorized adjustment. But I may very well be wrong.

 

[scurvy]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
I guess that depends on the definition of "factory adjustment." The adjustment can be performed by slotting holes; no aftermarket parts are needed for this task.

Aftermarket parts ARE needed for this task - a die grinder & carbide burr. Slotting holes for the upper strut mount studs is a modification to the unibody... do you want some minimum wage tech doing this to your car?

You're playing word games - if it can't be done with a wrench as it came from the assembly line, it isn't adjustable. I wouldn't have 'adjusted' your caster either, nor would I allow any of my techs do so if I owned an alignment shop... at least not without massive disclaimers, waivers & fees!

Attempting to get caster perfect on a 16 year old Saturn is just polishing the brass on the Deepwater Horizon. Sometimes 'good enough' is as good as it gets.

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted By: scurvy
.......You're playing word games - if it can't be done with a wrench as it came from the assembly line, it isn't adjustable. I wouldn't have 'adjusted' your caster either, nor would I allow any of my techs do so if I owned an alignment shop... at least not without massive disclaimers, waivers & fees!.......


Actually, this is not word games - and the above quote proves it. Cars would leave the alignment shop out of spec. That is the bottomline. The fact is these vehicles can be brought into spec and the fact that it requires some expertise and/or aftermarket parts is where the issue is.

Either you are in the business of doing alignments or you're not. If you are, then the only time a car should leave your shop out of spec is because the frame is bent - and you have to tell the customer that - or the customer refuses to pay for the parts needed to bring the car into spec. In either case, the customer knows his vehicle is out of spec. I would hope that the need for aftermarket parts would be discussed BEFORE agreeing to do an alignment - but my experience is that this too frequent a situation.

 

[mechanicx]

However, if your caster is off spec it's possible some suspension component is bent, like a strut or something else. And the real fix is part replacement. If the caster is not adjustable without modification, as is most strut suspensions, then I think the reason for out-of-spec should be found. We need to look at the SAI, setback, and camber specs to get a better idea.

It would be good if alignment shops were better at checking frame and suspension component dimensions. But on the other hand you can't really expecting that level of service from a shop that just does basic alignments and suspension work for $69.95. It is in the relm of a body/frame specialists and even they are lacking lol.

 

[scurvy]

Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Actually, this is not word games - and the above quote proves it. Cars would leave the alignment shop out of spec. That is the bottomline. The fact is these vehicles can be brought into spec and the fact that it requires some expertise and/or aftermarket parts is where the issue is.


Did the car leave the assembly line with alignment that was in specification? I assume so.

If it cannot be brought back into the same alignment simply by adjusting the suspension with wrenches (not with smoke wrenches or die grinders) then something is bent, broken, fatigued, cracked, whatever you want to call it. Replacing what is broken would be the proper way to take care of the issue. On PQ34 (A4 chassis) VWs, the only adjustment in the suspension is front toe, but with some judicious subframe shifting, some amount of camber is adjustable as well. mechanicx is correct that that a good body & frame shop would be able to do this but the standard $75 alignment shop will not be ready for that much work.

I still stand by my previous statement that trying to get the suspension perfect on a 14 year old car is throwing away good money.