Jiffy Lube mistake?

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Ya, I had the same reaction when I first heard this...and maybe I'm carrying on a myth.
I have heard of people using a T-Tech machine -some bring a bunch of Honda ATF-Z1 to avoid the typical Lube Control mix. If its passive then maybe my statement isn't correct.

I have a 02 ody, I first learned that the DIYer's were using a 3-4 drain/fill at Odyclub.com, claiming that this is what Honda recommends. Being skeptical, I looked in a Honda shop manual and found the same info. Since my 02 at the time was under warranty, I called my dealer to inquire about a flush, they told me that they had a 3 drain/fill procedure and no flush machine. They told me if I went to a third party for a machine flush, Honda would not stand behind the warranty on the AT. I asked why, and they told me that some machines create pressures and flows not typical of normal operation that could dislodge the screens. I have since seen posts with simlar statements, Fact or Myth, I'll let someoneelse experiment. It wouldn't be the first time a dealer myth circled the country...BUT Honda is different, no serviceable filter, no pan, goofy Z1 fluid - so I'm not convinced that flushs that are perfectly safe for every other auto are safe for a Honda.

The last time I was at jiffy lube (nearly 10 years ago) they told me their flush machine used a vaccum - which I declined since back then I always single filled and drained at 10-15k. I'm back to this interval with my ody now that clutch pack shreds seem involved with the 02 AT premature deaths.

I also have a 91 honda that was specd for DII. When DII disappeared, I tried DIII - bad shifts once it got to near 100% DIII. I tried Z1 (4 fill/drains) - still bad shifts. I tried 50/50 mix of DIII/Z1 - returned the performance back to DII days - go figure.
 
Boy, the more I look the harder it gets in finding the truth.

A few Acura sites are claiming a Honda TSB on not using machine flushes - I couldn't tell if it was a "screen" issue or a "cleaner" issue. Honda keeps TSBs out of the public domain. I had no luck finding a title or number.

I found postings of Honda owners claining that machine flushes don't cause problems (Myth) and I also found postings of owners claiming a machine flush messed-up their AT.

I found Honda dealers that don't perform machine flushes and I also found Honda dealers that had BG machines with cleaner.
 
quote:

Boy, the more I look the harder it gets in finding the truth.

A few Acura sites are claiming a Honda TSB on not using machine flushes - I couldn't tell if it was a "screen" issue or a "cleaner" issue. Honda keeps TSBs out of the public domain. I had no luck finding a title or number.

I found postings of Honda owners claining that machine flushes don't cause problems (Myth) and I also found postings of owners claiming a machine flush messed-up their AT.

I found Honda dealers that don't perform machine flushes and I also found Honda dealers that had BG machines with cleaner.

The problem is that there are many types of 'flush' machines out there. In my opinion, the best one is the T-Tech machine which is an exchanger. It is NOT powered on its own and is simply a glass cylinder with a piston in it that replaces used fluid with new fluid on a 1:1 basis as the transmission pushed the old fluid out the cooler line. As long as the transmission fluid wasn't dark as oil or full of gum and varnish, there is nothing wrong with a T-Tech transmission service - which is what most places use.

There are other kinds out there that have a built in pump that can even push fluid BACKWARDS (I believe snap-on makes one) or can push fluid through using compressed air or vaccuums. These are the ones that I would naturally feel iffy about.

So, it is not fair to group everything together and say 'pan/drain service is good, flushes are bad' because not all machines are equal.

So now, with this in mind, tell me how a T-Tech service using the correct fluid could possibly be bad for a Honda, or any other transmission for that matter. The transmission isn't doing anything it hasn't already done for 30K or 50K miles!!!!

Andy
 
Above is as much as I know
dunno.gif
. No more mid-night seaches for me.


Last night I saw other posst on other boards with people arguing over T-Tech, so you have a lot of support out there. Rather than shooting the messager
grin.gif
you could call your local Honda dealer and ask them about the T-Tech - I'd like to hear if the dealers are consistent. It sounds like you have the background with it to put them on the spot.

[ December 28, 2005, 12:55 AM: Message edited by: BobXRC ]
 
The Legend is a old model, before 1995 I beleive? This might have been well before the special Honda ATF days. The legend originally spec'd Dextron II. Dex III should be fine in this car.

Check the manual, I think you will find the Legend more forgiving in the ATF department.
 
My '96 Accord's owner's manual states:

"Use Honda Premium Formula Automatic Transmission Fluid or an equivalent DEXRON(tm) II Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) only." There was no specific warning at all regarding Dexron III. (I'm not at all certain Dexron III had come to market yet - that was over a decade ago when the manual had been copyrighted for printing - 1995.) Anyway, GM licensing protocols have always indicated backward compatibility with each successive Dexron release. Use DEXRON III, save a bunch of money over overpriced niche-player ATFs, and forget about it!
 
I wouldn't be suprised if Honda's original engineering for even new cars assumed DEXRON II with AFT-Z1 being a retro fit.

Ray - have you been using DIII (100%)? My 91 AT seemed different when it went from DII to DIII. My fix was a mix of AFT-Z1 with Mobile 1 DIII Syn. I know this doesn't make sense - maybe age and wear are a factor.

I think I saw DEXRON II from Red Line (looked like new stock at NAPA) - I might try that.
 
Hey don't kick that!! :>) It's great. That is for changing rear axle fluid with no drain plug, changing (partially) power steering fluid and the like. For the engine the plug needs to come out and the transmission pan needs to come off...On my Dodge 47re the front band requires adjustment so there is no other way to do it....
 
Not to discount the value of the allpar site, but if they were selling a product ..most of us would be highly critical of references to "one engineer was quoted as saying" ..without naming the engineer. Stuff like "is covered extensively on Chevron's web site" ..yet not linking to it.

Here's what a search of Chevron's web site yielded with ATF+4 put in the search engine:

DaimlerChrysler has had their own ATF specifications for many years, but as of 1997, Chrysler owners' manuals no longer list DEXRON as an acceptable replacement. ATF+3 is a readily available mineral oil-based ATF that is suitable in any application calling for ATF PLUS® , ATF+2® , or a Type 7176® fluid. Vehicles manufactured after 1999 require ATF+4® , a synthetic-based ATF only available through DaimlerChrysler.
more info

Most of the references are things like, "Joey Muckenstern, a senior Chrysler tech in a rural small dealership, noted that most smackeda$$es did this just before they lunched their autos".

Hardy from any authoritative sources.

Not that I scoff at everything that they're saying ...just pointing out that if they were selling something ...you would be considered brave to use testimonials as a purchasing guide.

I still think that, other then seal compatability issues with the later evolved fluid, this "+" issue is far simpler then anyone depicts. No one truly speaks with authority on it, describing in detail what the magic (cough-cough - lame) aspect that DC has incorporated into their transmissions that require this magic (cough-cough- bandaid) to compensate for whatever they've done to them for whatever reason.

All you will find is nebulous and vague references. Nothing of substance.

[ December 29, 2005, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]
 
BobXRC, someone on odyclub found the transmission filter and it serviceable even though Honda does not state it. I posted in a different post. Apparently is it attached to the return line from the radiator. I think the part is like $30-50 bucks, most dealers do not know about. Folks at odyclub are starting to change it themselves.

I may have it done at my next transmission service to be on the safe side.
 
Thanks tdpark. I found the part at one of the online Honda dealers - that dealer also shows where it goes. Wow, it looks really really bad to get at it. Post if you get it replaced - I'm guessing its going to be hard to get even the dealer to do it.
 
I know this is a old-post-resurrection, but I wanted to let BobXRC know that I just replaced that little filter on my '03 Odyssey trans. There are good instructions on Odyclub.com in the Periodic Maintenance section.
 
Thanks Mike. I'm hearing more and more people are getting to this filter.

Well, my transmission died last july. Got a free replacement from the dealer. I going to run SF Z1 this time.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=003204

I think I will try an inline filter as well.

Anyway, I can say that frequent changes didn't help prevent the death of a Honda 5-speed AT born 2002.

R. I. P. ...at least I kept ya clean!!!!!!!!
 
Smartblend looks like another Lubegard knock-off. The bottles are the same color, which is smart.

The older Honda (& Acura) transmissions that needed Dexron-II ATF are the only transmissions I know of where Dexron-III is not suitable. Honda Z-1 is the right ATF for these. Of course, Dex-III plus black-bottle secret sauce is said to work. But, at the price of the ATF supplement, you might as well buy the right stuff.

The big question about any Jiffy Lube work is whether or not they really did the work. A Southern California TV station did some reporting where they photographed several Jiffy Lubes that sold the work, collected the money, and did nothing.


Ken
 
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