jeep tic @ cold temps

[jg1]

Brief history: bought the jeep (91 wrangler 4.0 33K miles 1 owner) 3 yrs ago. Was not taken well care of, lot of nasty stuff under the valve cover. Which is how I discovered this site a couple of years ago. Did the auto rx thing, for $50 bucks why not. Good product. Anyway at cold temps (25 deg F) the engine has a very LOUD tick until it warms up. Lifter(s) my guess. Used havoline 10w30, right now have RTS10w30. Both are loud, but seems louder with the RTS. First go around with the RTS (havoline just keeps climbing what can I say). My assumption is this noise is just annoyance and not lethal. Is there a better selection to quite this down without going exotic?

Driving habits: sees a lot of short trips, sees 8-10K a year.

Misc: typical blow by, common problem from my understanding, have done all the typical maintenance associated with this problem. No noticeable affect.

Great site.

jg

 

[Sparkman]

Could it be piston slap rather than a lifter tick? It's hard to describe the difference, but piston slap is loud and annoying and usually goes away once it warms up.

You might try something that will flow better at cold temps if that's when you experience the noise.

I don't know much about your particular jeep, but my understanding is that there are some improved CCV parts for the older 4.0's.

 

[TR3-2001SE]

Don't know much about Jeeps. However my Toyota Cressida had a tick until I used Marvel Mystery Oil 1 quart at an oil change. Should use a good synthetic after you get it to go away. Best cold weather oil is Mobil 1 EP 5w-30. Good luck.

 

[superstud]

i have a 97 cherokee 4.0 and it ticks too. its really loud at start up but as it reaches operating temperature it gets quieter and is only noticeable in the 1150-1300 rpm range. sonds kind of like a rattle that speeds up with rpm increase. i believe it is a stuck valve lifter. going to try autorx when the weather gets warmer before i decide to remove the head for a valve job.

 

[JeepCreep]

It sounds to me like....you have a Jeep.

I highly doubt you have a problem. My jeep does all kinds of weird things when it's cold and its brand new.

 

[gtx510]

my '91 XJ prefers 40wt oil but it's warmer down here.

 

[427Z06]

Quote:

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Best cold weather oil is Mobil 1 EP 5w-30.

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In what way is it the "best cold weather oil"?

 

[Gary Allan]

33k over 15 years is going to be rough on any engine. All the CJ guys with 100k+ on a 30 year old engine

What do you expect? You can't be doing too much long trip usage over that span of time. Hence they typically saw a lot of rough duty ..summer trail humpin' or winter plowing ..with months without moving at all. Blowby is the common indicator in most of these engines of that type of ownership.

Anyway, I think that you've got the CCV system and not an actual PCV valve. I could be wrong. Do you have the TBI injection or the multi point? The CCV system will puke more blowby than a traditional PCV setup.

One of the unfortunate features of this engine is not being able to pull the lifters without pulling the head ..and a lack of adjustment. They're just supposed to pump up to take up clearances. They have a narrow margin of preferred (cough-cough-wink) quiet operation.

You should be able to verify that it's a lifter with the valve cover off. Just start it up and watch the oil flow. If the noise goes away and they all start bleeding even ..where a couple were a little slow ..then that's probably it. You should also hear it really distinctly.

The timing chain is another source of noise in this engine. I would think that it wouldn't vary with how the oil heated.

I don't know where "K" is but you're hitting 25F ..and you say that you're doing short trips .. why not just try a 5w-20 to see if the symptom relieves itself?? Just for one OCI. You may see more consumption ..but you'll gauge your issue in terms of how fast it goes away. You can always top up with heavier stuff as it consumes it.

There are some blow by management techniques that I'll PM you about that will relieve your situation there. It won't stop the production ..but it will tidy it up a bit.

I gather that you're interested in keeping this thing running without investing much in terms of major work. This can surely be done. The power output of the engine will allow it to degrade substantially while providing decent drivability ..just as long as you're not fouling plugs and whatnot.

 

[jg1]

Thanks for the replys. I'll try to answer everything in one shot. 91 first year of the 4.0 HO fuel injection. It is ccv, and everything has been done that can be (all new components etc.). K is Kansas, sorry I get ahead of myself and missed the "s". The Loud noise is only there when it is cold, give it a few minutes and it is gone. I don't seem to be fouling plugs. 70% short trips, 30% other.

I'm not opposed to the mystery stuff, I can't remember if I tried that a year or so ago or not.

Gary, probably of the three I like the catch can approach the best. Good stuff, thanks.

 

[widman]

I had this engine in my 93 GCL. Had the noise until I changed lifters. Contrary to many engines, it quieted with heavier oil. I ended up with 20W-50 until changing the lifters. When I changed out the lifters I also changed out the valve springs and retainers with 96 or 97 models, giving much faster closing and eliminating the retainer slippage.

 

[jg1]

follow up...

After doing some net search I found some "interesting" ways to deal with blowby. I’d already replaced all the preventative maintenance parts sometime ago, other than parts replacement most where doing a catch can (one of your ideas Gary).

I did however come across this

http://www.envalve.com/

I purchased and installed and figured I would give it a shot. I talked with the inventor/owner, he said jeeps where his main customers. I'm not advocating this product, but figure I would post for any other jeep owners with blowby and like to gamble on products.

As far as investigating ticking noise farther, haven't got to it (I know) and with warmer weather out of ear out of mind.

Thanks all.

 

[mdocod]

I'm curious about that envalve.. I've got a buddy with an 89 4.2 with the 4.0 head/injection mod... The guy who did the mods on it never found a very good way to deal with the PCV system... it blows a lot of oil on the driver side front inside wheel well as it is now.... The guy routed it away from the intake.. which is in some ways nice (the intake is spotless), but the PCV system is poopin all over the engine bay.... need to find a better way to deal with it, but since the PCV systems in these commonly blow oil, some kinda different setup is going to need to be done. I'd like to get some kinda new valve or filter or routing setup that runs the crankcase gases back through the intake (better for environment) without filling the IM with oil, lol. So I'm interested in hearing about that valve, and what it does...

I was going to suggest trying GC in that engine. It's a heavy 30 weight. but flows very well in the cold(0W rating). It's the only oil that starts my isuzu without violent ticking.

 

[sw99]

Yea, I am interested also. Could you PM me with the price you paid and the contact info.

 

[jg1]

Probably the best way is to call the # from their site, and converse with the owner. I viewed the patent info when I first received the device. I'll see if I can find the patent # again.

My understanding is the device modulates a constant vacuum in the crankcase. On my 91 the vacuum seems pretty substantial (whatever that means, I have no reference). I can remove the "dipstick" and hold my finger over it and feel the vacuum. I've had the device installed for around 600 miles so far so good.

 

[MarkC]

Is it possible the ticking is just a solenoid or maybe a small crack in the exhaust manifold?